Three days after the reelection of President George W. Bush further marginalized the African-American community, two of black America’s most prominent leaders joined in a rare public discussion on what to do next. Pulled together by WVON-AM, an influential black-owned radio station, Minister Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam and the Rev. Jesse Jackson of Rainbow/PUSH spent two hours… return to article
-
subscribe to print magazine
-
email this article to a friend
-
Reader Comments (40)Page 1 of 1 pages“He got tagged with the anti-Semitic label for some reckless rhetoric...”
Saying Farrakhan engaged in “reckles rhetoric” is like saying Bin Laden is “a little careless with explosives.”
Let me share with you some *recent* quotes-- spoken *this year* by Callypso Louie Farrakhan:
National Press Club, Washington, D.C., May 3, 2004
*Jews on a Mission of Evil*
“Now the thinking of these neoconservatives is written of in scripture. In the book of Revelations, 2 and 9, it reads, ‘I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not but are a synagogue of Satan.’ What is the blasphemy? A Jew is a noble name. A Jew means one who is in a covenant relationship with God in obedience to the divine laws, statues and commandments of God. But these people claim to be Jews but they’re not in obedience to God’s law, they have given a mission of evil a divine look on it. And George W. Bush has swallowed that bait, hook line and sinker. The synagogue of Satan is a gathering of persons of like mind and spirit who are in opposition to the will of God. So Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers that are not of this world, and spiritual wickedness in high places.National Black Agenda Convention: Boston, March 18, 2004
*On Jews and Homosexuals:*
“I call them the so-called Jews because to be a Jew you have to adhere to the statutes and laws that create the special relationship. How can you be a Jew and promote homosexual marriage?”You can read more of Far-Out-Khan’s rantings at:
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/farrakhan_own_words.aspThis isn’t “reckless rhetoric.” This is the central thesis of his doctrine and-- I fear-- the essence of what attracts *some* of his followers.
Posted by Rev. Ian Brumberger on Nov 17, 2004 at 8:39 AM “Minister” Louis Farrakhan is the most prominent racist alive in the US today. Blacks and others should turn their backs on him and ignore him until he goes away.
Posted by duh on Nov 17, 2004 at 8:46 AM Here are some more choice quotes by Callypso Louie Farrakhan:
“I believe that for the small numbers of Jewish people in the United States, they exercise a tremendous amount of influence on the affairs of government...Yes, they exercise extraordinary control, and Black people will never be free in this country until they are free of that kind of control...”
Meet The Press interview, 4/14/97“I’m not into integration. I ain’t for that. God told the Jews, he didn’t want you intermarrying with others. But you disobeyed him. He don’t want us uniting into this that he’s come to judge… You can’t integrate with wickedness if you want righteousness.”
8th Anniversary The Holy Day of Atonement speech at Mosque Maryam, Chicago, 10/16/03arrakhan: “Is the Federal Reserve owned by the government?”
Audience: “No.”
Farrakhan: “Who owns the federal reserve?”
Audience: “Jews.”
Farrakhan: “The same year they set up the IRS, they set up the FBI. And the same year they set up the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith… It could be a coincidence… [I want] to see black intellectuals free… I want to see them not controlled by members of the Jewish community.”
Dallas Observer on-line, 8/10/00\“They call them [Hezbollah] terrorists, I call them freedom fighters...No one asks why they would do such a thing. Why would they do such a thing? What has driven them to this point? That’s what the UN, the U.S. and Europe doesn’t want to deal with because the Zionists have control in England, in Europe, in the United States and around the world.”
Speech at the District Council 33 Union Hall,
Philadelphia, PA, 4/22/96Suppose Hitler was trying to destroy the international bankers controlling Europe, but he went about it by attacking a whole people. All Jews are not responsible for the evil of the few who do evil...But certain Jews have used Judaism as a shield.”
Saviours’ Day Speech, Chicago, 2/26/95“If we dig, we run into the Jewish pot of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
National Black Agenda Convention, Boston, 3/18/04“They [Israel] wouldn’t allow me to go to Jerusalem. If I had gone they might have stoned me. I didn’t want to repeat history. I know they stoned Jesus. I know they’ve killed the prophets of God there.”
Saviours’ Day Speech, Chicago, 2/22/98And lest the non-Jewish white people feel left out, here is what Farrakhan has to say about Whitey:
White people are potential humans…they haven’t evolved yet.”
Philadelphia Inquirer, 3/18/00
Posted by Rev. Ian Brumberger on Nov 17, 2004 at 9:24 AM I find it interesting that no one has called Min. Farrakhan a lier. If the statements are true then you can not call him an anti-semite, you have to call him a truth bearer.
Posted by keith on Nov 17, 2004 at 10:35 AM I have the desire to legitimize Calypso Louie’s rantings nor to waste my time debunking them.
But I don’t recall Louie suggesting that we treat the author’s of “The Bell Curve” with deference as “truth tellers,” or the “Jewish Media’s” portrayal of African-Americans as “truth telling.”
It is a “fact” that more African-American males are in prison than in college. This “fact” is a deliberate misrepresentation, because college kids are almost always between ages 18-24, but people of ALL ages go to jail.
“Facts” like that can be twisted into a false assertion of racial inferiority. If you are fair-minded and rational, you will realize that it is racism that’s ultimately responsible.
“Truth” can always be twisted into hate.
Hate is hate is hate whether it is “true” or not. It must be considered in the spirit in which it is intended.
I don’t want to get sucked inton a debate on whether Jews are evil, and whether Louie is “telling the truth.” It would be a pointless exercise, and a waste of bandwidth.
I won’t try to teach the pig to sing. It would only waste my time and annoy the pig.
Posted by Rev. Ian Brumberger on Nov 17, 2004 at 10:57 AM Yes Keith, Jews are blue-eyed devils. Doh!
It is unfortunate that a book like the Bell Curve is so difficult to discuss in parts of this country today. Political correctness run amok! But that is a sbuject for another day, in another forum.
Posted by clearly on Nov 17, 2004 at 11:18 AM Here come the trolls..
At every opportunity these trolls (aka sayanim) spam any topic that relates to Farrakhan with their Defacation League (adl) rants. They fear what the Defacation League terms his “legitimization” so they are at a constant struggle to prevent people from giving him a listen for themselves.
Here’s a few pointers that the trolls would hate for the public to check:
Web audio stream of Jackson and Farrakhan’s conversation: http://www.finalcall.com/webcast/MLF-RJJ
Farrakhan’s May 3 press conference on Bush and his weapons of mass distraction: http://www.finalcall.com/pressconference/
Have a nice day!
Posted by Elroy Cohen on Nov 17, 2004 at 12:46 PM So if F-Head talks normal on one day and crazy the next, we should believe the normal stuff? Can’t we just admit that as black leaders go he is/was a complete failure? Or, to make it more appealing to the liberals, that he was of the same caliber as Arafat? :)
Posted by clearly on Nov 17, 2004 at 1:54 PM Articles like this are a sad, sad testament as to what passes for “leadership” in the African-American community these days. These two ignorant, racist fuck-sticks are losers. BOTH of them.
Farrakhan? Are you fucking kidding me? This asswipe is as racist as Archie Bunker, only more dangerous. And Jesse “PR” Jackson… now THERE’S a real leader for you.
No, real leaders don’t engage in the moral/spiritual hypocrisy this toad practices. Wife? WHAT wife? Was it “Jesus’ mission statement” that suggested he could nail whatever he could, whenever he could get it?
He rails against big business, corporate interests and the Republicans, but I guess he can do that when people are too timid or intimidated to check his own finances as well as those of Operation Push. You know Operation Push, right? AKA, “Jesse’s private slush fund.”
These two clowns are a sham, the worst kind of hypocrisy there is. The cause of African Americans is a noble one, fraught with terrible bloodshed and hard work. Neither one of these two has done much of anything to further ANY cause other than their own.
You want a “leader?” How about Bill Cosby, an African American who is PROUD because he actually earned the right and speaks about reality? A guy who promotes accountability, ethics and doing the right thing. THAT is the kind of leader not only the African-American cause could use, but also dumb, fat white guys like me.
Posted by g-love on Nov 17, 2004 at 3:08 PM g-love is right! Cosby is a real leader of black folk. He has the creditials to tell the truth, especially when painful. If the truth is heard and understood, it will free people from blaming others and allow them to build lives worth living.
Cosby is a modern hero. And i agree once again with g-love - this man transends race.
Posted by goCosby on Nov 17, 2004 at 4:03 PM You foul mouthed trolls are something else. Now you are fans of the great Bill Cosby (LOL).. bestowing upon him the “credentials” of “black leadership”. Give me a break?
Not that Bill Cosby is not a worthy man to be an inspiration to others (because he is) but you trolls are so fake.
What does the great Cos himself have to say about this? ..Now, now trolls, don’t get too perturbed after reading this..
Cosby: ‘I get jealous’ of the Muslims
Oct 5, 2004NEWARK - Legendary entertainer Bill Cosby made his return to the city to head a panel discussion on how education can be used to break poverty’s chains.
Wearing black trousers and a black sweatshirt with “Parent Power” printed on the front, Dr. Cosby addressed more than 1,000 students, teachers, parents and the public at Newark Vocational High School in the city’s central ward, saying that he was “jealous” of the fact that Muslims are able to gain support and have a strong influence on sectors of the community where the police and others can’t.
“I want my Christian family to hit the streets and duplicate what they’ve done,” he said. At a similar forum discussion in Springfield, Mass. in August, Dr. Cosby did more than just praise Muslims when he publicly expressed a desire to meet with the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan.
The whole article is here:
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_1591.shtml
Posted by Elroy Cohen on Nov 17, 2004 at 6:45 PM I think it’s safe to assume that the Rev. Ian Brumberger doesn’t particularly care for Farrakhan much? Of course, you have a right to love or hate whomever you choose, but your plethora of quotations from the ADL does nothing but drive a deeper wedge between the two communities and lends credence to the Nation’s assertion that European Jews are up to something shady.
The best way to confront Farrakhan would be for the Jewish community to do just that: confront him. Yet no one from the Jewish community would do so in the past, and apparently none will now (to do so would be lending a certain level of legitimacy to him, so that’s to be avoided). Avoidance suggests fear, and this is how it is taken.
You Farrakhan-haters will never be able to understand how a person you hate so viscerally can draw over a million black men to DC because you don’t take the time to listen, and your arrogance pushes you to think that you are above talking to someone you perceive as an enemy. It also shows that you can’t tell others (especially those that you don’t really understand) who their leaders should be.
Instead of worrying about Farrakhan, you need to worry about the more dangerous white supremacist/neo-Nazi groups who have killed blacks and Jews in the past. The ADL doesn’t really get worked-up over the neo-Nazis though. Why not?
Posted by pheromone 7.1 on Nov 18, 2004 at 12:06 AM In 1973 the Honorable Elijah Muhammad published The Fall Of America. Many people thought that the idea was absurd. Today in 2004 many millions of Americans are realizing that the corrupt ruling class is destroying this nation’s future through the gross violation of human rights both domestically and internationally. By bleeding the middle class and the underclass in order to further enrich the already bloated upper class and by pursuing unjust wars white America’s rulers are proving themselves the most arrogant in history. As America falls she intensifies her exploitation of Afro-Descendants upon whom she has always imposed ethnocide and forced assimilation. Minister Farrakhan and Reverend Jackson are most welcome to join the African-American scholars who have been testifying for years before the U.N. Human Rights Commission in order to establish Human Rights and secure Reparations for all Afro-Descendants in the Western Hemisphere.
Sincerely,
Minister Malik Al-Arkam
www.AllForReparations.org
Posted by Malik Al-Arkam on Nov 18, 2004 at 5:56 AM Farrahkan and Jesse are the unified front of leadership? I think I am going to cry......
What an embarrassment to all of us!
Posted by Trend on Nov 18, 2004 at 8:11 AM Elroy, with all due respect, if you wanna run with the big dogs, then step up and open your eyes. You post some tripe about Cosby admiring the way Muslims are able to galvanize and UNITE their people.
THAT’S a “bad” thing? When’s the last time THAT happened?
WAKE UP already!! I threw Cosby’s name out there because he’s been in the news lately, but please provide ANY example of where Jesse “PR” Jackson or the “Not-so” Honourable Farrakhan has provided any REAL leadership. And keep in my mind “Leadership” has nothing to do with the abject moral, spiritual and ethical hypocrisy BOTH of these fools have embodied throughout their “careers.”
Cosby’s message is about responsibility, about people taking control of their lives and ulimately their own destiny. NOT blaming their woes on “the man,” rather trying to do something POSITIVE about it. And I don’t say that to minimize/trivialize the atrocities and wrongs that white America has committed against not only African-Americans, but many minorities. But at some point you gotta do for yourself and quit blaming others.
When’s the last time we got any kind of coherent message like that from these two so-called “leaders?” If anything, they’re DIVIDERS. The majority of African-Americans pay no heed to these morons because they can see through their shams and recognize them for the charlatans they are.
Let’s do a little dreaming, shall we? What if there was someone in the African-American community who could actually rally people around him/her? Maybe even “whitey,” too? Do you realize what a powerful thing that would be?
If you don’t, just picture that scenario and then ask yourself if we’d be facing another four years of George Bush and Halliburton running things. The African-American community is so divided, so fractioned, they don’t even come CLOSE to tapping their latent power.
Which is a shame. As a group, African-Americans get the short end of the stick on so many levels it’s sickening. If anyone in this country has cause to be pissed off at how things are, it is THEY.
So again I ask: where were your heroes when their people needed them this past election? REAL leaders would’ve stepped forward, and done something to help the cause. Neither of these clowns took the trouble to do so.
Sorry, by comparison, Bill Cosby looks like fucking MLK and Harriet Tubman all rolled into one. Oh, and pardon my troll-like language. I tend to get that way when I get fired up about something. Deal with it… or not.
Posted by g-love on Nov 18, 2004 at 9:14 AM I am sad to say that, as a Jew, if there is a Jewish “conspiracy” I have not
gotten any royalty checks, nor even a single copy of the newsletter. I don’t even have their email address.Nobody has told me what part I am supposed to play in global domination, nor
where I should pick up my check.I get better customer service from the Registry of Motor Vehicles.
I don’t think “The Jews” are your enemy.
All of our cultures, races and countries have been hijacked by multi-national
corporations more powerful than any of our governments and any of our
respective houses of worship.The one thing these huge corporations have in common?
They are all run by rich people.
Rich White people. Rich Black people. Rich Jewish people. Rich Muslim people.
Rich Christian people. Rich Scientologists. Rich Hindus and probably even rich
Budhists. Somewhere, there may even be a rich Druid exploiting the masses, too.Blacks, Whites, Jews, Christians and Muslims alike all have the same “enemy"--
multi-national corporations run by rich folks of every race and religion.Are Jackson, Farakhan etc. bigots or anti-semites?
Truthfully, who cares?
What we should care about is that corporations run by rich people of all colors and religions rejoice while we rant and rave and point the finger at one another.
They sell us the booze to drown our sorrows.
They sell us the guns to shoot each other with.
They sell us the Hummers that run on 10 Miles Per Gallon and Two Soldiers Per
Day.They ship our jobs overseas, and then send us to fight for oil so rich people
can play soldiers in their Hummers while real soldiers die in theirs.Christian zealots fan the flames of Armageddon, urging Jews and Muslims to fight
each other like pitbulls in a ring, edging ever closer to the Apocalypse.Corporations run by Whites, Blacks, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Hindus
gleefully sell missiles, reactors, Uranium, guns, germs, and gas to anyone with
the cash.They sell us the fuel, we throw it on the fire for them.
Farrakhan can hate me and the Jews all he wants. I really don’t care. But he’s
wasting his time and my time and the time of his followers. He’s just playing
into the hands of the real enemy. That is what they want us to do.To Paraphrase Malcolm X, Plymouth Rock may have landed on the Black people, but since then it has been tossed around like a medicine ball to land on everyone else, too.
But what do we do about it?
I do not know.
There are a lot of people who do not know. Most people don’t know. Maybe nobody
knows. Solving this mess is complicated. It is difficult. It may even be
impossible.It is SO much easier to point the finger at someone else and say, “it is THEM.”
It is much harder to look in the mirror and say, “I have seen the enemy, and it
is us.”It is White people. Black people. Jewish people. Muslim people.
Christian people. Scientologists. Hindus. Budhists. It is all of us.It is the corporate monsters that all of us have created and that we all
continue to feed.Hate us or not, we need each other.
But where do we go from here?
Posted by Rev. Ian Brumberger on Nov 18, 2004 at 12:23 PM G-love obviously from your critical words about Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson could you tell us how could Black America unite. What are we missing? Because from your words it sounds like the things we needs came right out of the program of the Honarable Elijah Muhammad or Min Louis Farrakhan. May be you should be less critical and involve yourself more in the struggle. You can call Farrakhan and Jesse all of these name but what are you doing for Black people because running off at the mouth ain’t gonna do anything. I just wanted you and the others who are black that are critical of Black leadership to get up and do something or be quiet.
Posted by CMuhammad on Nov 18, 2004 at 12:42 PM Salim:
Before I read your article I listened to parts of and read exerpts from the conversation and came to the conclusion that it was a non-event. Neither Jackson nor Farrakhan said anything they haven’t said before, the conversation was not newsworthy. I guess that’s why your article left me feeling like I missed something, why was it written? As much as I love these guys, the overriding impression their meeting left me was that they are old, they fought the good fight and now its time for them to sit down and let the next generation take up the battle. However, the one quote attributed to Farrakhan, “The Kerry campaign continuously talked about the middle class, but there was not one word referring to the poor,” speaks volumes as to why his relevance to the broader Black community is declining. Contrary to prevailing wisdom, most Black folks aren’t poor, nor do most Blacks fit into Americas’ definition of the “middle class”. Most Black Americans are working class people or entrepreneurs, small business people, self employed. If Farrakhan considers them the poor people the Democrats ignored during the Presidential campaign, I think he should have made the distinction between those poor Blacks that are caught up in the system (public aid, subsidized housing, food stamps, prison industrial/criminal justice system, etc.) and those poor Black folks that get up and go to work or take care of their business everyday and pay their bills as best they can, which is the vast majority of Blacks. If he had made the distinction he would have to acknowledge that the poor by virtue of their relationship with institutional America and those that are directly involved in its economy are catching different kinds of hell. Working/entrepreneurial class Blacks are getting taxed to death. It’s not just the fact that we are taxed so hard but more importantly, we don’t get anything in return for our tax investments. Every single government service our taxes supposedly pay for is delivered very poorly to Black communities. Black folks caught up in Americas’ institutionally stricken poverty cycle are merely being pimped mainly because many or most of them believe they have to rely on someone or something other than themselves to solve their problems and provide for their needs. Farraknhans’ “do for self” philosophy would certainly benefit institutionally stricken poor Black folks if it changed their behavior but working/entrepreneurial class Blacks bought into that concept a long time ago and are better off for it but should be a lot further along economically. The next generation of Black leaders will need to address agendas more in economic terms than social or political. What money this government doesn’t tax from us needs to be invested in a manner that yields a much better return. Network, spend with like kind.
Posted by theloneous on Nov 18, 2004 at 2:02 PM C,
Though I’m not black (see reference to myself in earlier post, I’m the “dumb, fat white guy") I sympathize/empathize with African-Americans. I abhor racism, ignorance and institutionalized programs that support such things.
I view both of these two as hypocrites and unworthy of a cause that has had champions like MLK. Have you forgotten the odious “hymie town” remarks by Jackson? The fact that he IS A MINISTER and can’t keep his zipper shut?
Granted, MLK was a known womanizer, but his message at least was one of peace and unity - NOT the mindless crap Jackson spews. As for Farrakhan, this is a guy who doesn’t even hide his disdain for certain ethnic/religious groups, and may have blood on his hands going back to Malcom X.
Since you asked, here’s what I think should be done. I don’t profess to be the expert, but you did ask:
Mobilize: why don’t blacks show up at the polls? And not just for the “biggies,” like the Presidential elections. Local elections have a much, much more direct impact on most people’s lives, that is the quickest way to affect change in people’s neighborhoods.
Stop playing the race card/blame game: Yes, this country has a sick history of slavery, racism, lynching, etc. It also has a proud record of civil rights reform and limited so-called “affirmitive action.” At some point, it becomes WAY to easy to sit back, point the finger at “the man” and lay blame for all one’s problems at his doorstep. Like the Coz said, take responsibility, pick yourself up and move on already. And that definitely includes the ridiculous, divisive, pointless garbage that is “reparations.” News flash: it’s never going to happen, it really shouldn’t happen (for a variety of reasons) and it is a drain on resources, morale, etc. Move on already.
Be a man: The sad paradigm of poor parenting skills, particularly among fathers, is certainly not limited to the black community. Hell, I have pasty-white relatives I could point to as examples. But statistically speaking, this is of epidemic proportions in the black community, and it is a serious issue. Quit creating offspring you can’t/won’t care for, and love the hell out of the ones you have. Period. End of story. Capiche?
Make it “cool” to be “cool”: Rap, hip-hop and other so-called “urban” styles of music are wonderful, and often serve as fine examples of musical creativity at its finest. However, some of it is just pure trash, glorifying and promoting abuse against women, rampant drug abuse, etc. That shit needs to STOP.
That is my limited list. Can one “leader” affect all this stuff? Sure. Perhaps not “directly,” especially in the case of music, but there needs to be SOMEONE to stand up and be a champion. Any time now, fine by me.
Posted by g-love on Nov 18, 2004 at 3:13 PM Two leaders, one station, two brilliant minds
CHICAGO (FinalCall.com) - The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan and Reverend Jesse Jackson, the two pre-eminent leaders among Black people in America, met publicly for a rare political summit Nov. 5, just three days after Election Day 2004, at WVON-AM radio, the “capital” of Black intellectual dissemination.
The conversation, according to convener and talk show host Cliff Kelley, amounted to the African American “State of the Union.”
“On this day, we are more than just a radio station. We are the voice of a nation of people—The Talking Drum,” Melody Spann-Cooper, president and CEO of Black-owned WVON radio, told listeners. “We are telling our story today, for tomorrow, with the most influential leaders of our modern times.”
The broadcast was carried live on more than 50 radio stations and it was re-broadcast that evening on “The Bev Smith Show” on the American Urban Radio Network (AURN). “Today is a moment in African American history. Two leaders. One station. Two brilliant minds. It’s Nation time,” said Ms. Cooper, as she introduced WVON’s “Morning Miracle,” Cliff Kelley.
The principals were certainly up to the task, continuing for the first time in public the series of private conversations they have been having with one another over the years.
“In spite of what happened this past Tuesday (Election Day), we believe that everything is in divine order. That Bush re-election is not really bad for us, but if we look deeper it is good for us,” Minister Farrakhan explained in his opening.
The Muslim leader referred to the Biblical text about “the dry bones in the valley.” The bones just wouldn’t come together after they heard the word, he explained. “But when the winds began to blow on the bones, the bones stood up in that valley, an exceedingly great army.
“The winds of poverty, and want, and joblessness, and hunger, and nakedness, and war and revolution, those are winds, and President Bush is an instrument blowing a lot of these winds,” said Min. Farrakhan. “And so I feel that his election, though hurting some of us, will be a wind that says to all of us that we cannot depend on a benevolent Caucasian in the White House to solve our problems. But the Rev. Jackson and I, and Black leadership, and all of us need to come together, because our unity will solve 95 percent of our problems and give us power to leverage that unity to solve the problems of our people all around the world.”
Rev. Jackson picked up on the election outcome. “While 90 percent of African Americans voted for Kerry over Bush, and Bush won this time, we need not be in perpetual despair, in the sense that there were some victories this past Tuesday.”
There were three million more Black voters this year than in the 2000 election, he noted. That was 11.5 percent of the entire national vote, near parity with the total Black population of 12 percent.
“There are now three more members of the Congressional Black Caucus: Gwen Moore from Milwaukee; Al Green from Houston, Texas; Rev. Emmanuel Cleaver from Kansas City,” he pointed out. “So we now have a total of 43 members of the Congressional Black Caucus. In 1965, we marched for the right to vote in Selma, Ala., we had three Blacks in Congress: Mr. Nix from Philadelphia, Mr. Dawson from Chicago, and Adam Powell from New York. Now, we have 43,” and a Black member in the U.S. Senate—Barack Obama, who won the election in Illinois by a 50 percentage point margin.
“We need not hold our heads down as if we are powerless, and as if we made a mistake. We did the right thing. We did it in grand style and our presence will not be denied,” Rev. Jackson continued.
The historic program came about after a member of the WVON management was approached by a senior citizen at a live broadcast from a Black-owned McDonald’s restaurant earlier this year. Both the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (as well as Min. Malcolm X) and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.—the mentors of the two guests—had both appeared on WVON in the past, Mr. Kelley a former Chicago alderman, explained. The meeting, he said, was not an interview, but “a conversation.”
An immoral war, an ugly picture
“You would think that he was talking as though he won 70 percent of the vote,” Mr. Kelley complained about Pres. George Bush’s post-election promises about his second administration. “But the most important thing that he is prosecuting now is what many of us—myself included—feel is an illegal and immoral war in Iraq.
Posted by Szla on Nov 20, 2004 at 7:34 AM “Some feel that this is an election—not re-election. I never said that because he was never elected the first time. He was selected—but now that he has been elected, he is going to ‘stay the course,’ as he said, relative to the war. I think that the war in Iraq, and terrorism are two separate issues. How does the war impact on the country in general, and again (on)African Americans, particularly? And do you tie this in, as he continuously tries to do, with the war on terrorism?”
“There is a lot in this picture that is ugly,” said Min. Farrakhan. “It is the wrong war, and it is the wrong time and the wrong place, and this war, it seems to me, will not go away.
“America is involved and even if John Kerry had won the White House, he could not cut and run. So this is becoming another Vietnam, raping the American treasury of billions of dollars and killing our youth for nothing. So it has impacted greatly on America, but on our youth in particular, because we’re supposed to be all we can never be in American society. So we join the armed forces, but not to die in Iraq over foolishness, but to protect the United States of America in reality.”
“Well Cliff, to be sure, the war is immoral and did not make us more secure,” Rev. Jackson began.
“That’s right. We are less secure,” Mr. Kelley interjected.
“As a matter of fact, we have galvanized global opinion against our country, putting us in further isolation. And as opposed to containing a threat of terror, we are spreading it.
“The tragedy for me, Cliff, is that we’re losing so many lives,” Rev. Jackson continued. But the deaths are occurring only among the poor, he said. They are “trapped in a back-door draft, looking at a front-door draft, because there are not enough troops. We are paying a billion dollars per week. We’ve got first class jails, second class schools. We are engaged in the wrong war,” he said.
“We know now that this man (Pres. Bush) lied to us,” Mr. Kelley continued. “I was blaming the intelligence community. We found out now that intelligence knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. But Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, et al, just changed what the intelligence community gave them.
“And we can’t leave out (Sec. of State Colin) Powell. He sat there and lied about the aluminum tubes. He lied about the yellow-cake from Niger. They just lied. We can’t afford just to back up and say we’re going to go along with him.
“Based on the things he’s done and the people who are dying as a result of these lies, going after Saddam Hussein, as somebody mentioned, would have been like (Pres. Franklin D.) Roosevelt after Pearl Harbor attacking Sweden. There is no connection there. People need to know that. Somebody even suggested the way to do it is to file articles of impeachment against this man who’s in the White House,” Mr. Kelley insisted.
Posted by Szla on Nov 20, 2004 at 7:36 AM Hegemony on oil, attacks on Islam
“President Nixon, after he was out of office, said that the Third World War has begun and we’re losing it. Our enemy is not Communism, but the real enemy of democracy is fundamentalist Islam,” Min. Farrakhan explained in response to Mr. Kelley’s question concerning the appearance that Mr. Bush’s “war on terrorism” is, in fact, an attack on Islam.
“What is fundamentalist Islam? It is, in reality, man seeking obedience to God as the way to rule and guide his life. Out of obedience comes a political system based on that. Muslims are challenging their leaders whom they feel have deviated from the principles of Islam. What this is producing is a threat to Western hegemony over the world.
“So, when America says, ‘We don’t want fundamentalist Islam, we want a moderated Islam that we can control.’ But real Islam and real Muslims will never bow to the control of Western democracy, cause that is alien to the teachings of God that are found in the Bible, and really in the Qur’an, itself. So we see it as an attack against Islam.”
“So, it is an attack against Islam, and only moderate Islam, only an Islam they feel they can control is acceptable to this government.”
“Cliff, can I just say that the attack on Iraq has a lot to do, I think, more with oil than religion and hegemony of the region,” Rev. Jackson said for his part. “Those people who live at home, who pray and go about their way, they were not headed this way. They had something we wanted. It was not the religion, it was hegemony on the oil.
“My bottom line is that I remain convinced it was more about oil than hegemony, and (former Iraqi President) Saddam (Hussein) was not the threat to us that we were told he was. Meantime, we’ve got Saddam in jail, more Americans have died since he’s been in jail. Bin Laden is still on the loose in the hills, where now there is a flourishing poppy seed production, making more heroin production,” he continued.
The solution is unity
There is one possible upside, Min. Farrakhan pointed out. “For the first time, as I can recall, the American people are looking at foreign policy. So when Pres. Bush said, ‘They hate us because we have freedom.’ The lie is—of course, Malcolm said it best—the chickens are now coming home to roost.
“The destruction of those towers was a reaction, not an action. It was a reaction to treachery and wicked foreign policy of the government of the United States. And once the American people understand what the government has done, and is doing in their name, they will rise up and there will be revolution.”
The solution, the two religious-political giants agreed, is unity and a re-definition of morality in this country. “Jesus said, ‘Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing who are deceptive,’ Rev. Jackson explained.
“It was unfortunate that they chose to define morality so narrowly, as opposed to defining morality as how we treat the least of these. ‘I was hungry and you fed me, or not. I was naked and you clothed me, or not.’ We must now again seize the argument, defining what’s moral. In the 1950s and 1960s, we defined morality as being anti-segregation. Dr. King had the Bible in one hand, the flag in the other.
“We defined moral as being anti-segregation. They defined moral as segregation. We said slavery is immoral, the folks who did it were sinners. We had the moral and patriotic weapons in our hands. For some, when they dropped that Bible and dropped that flag, they made a huge mistake. Those were the two strongest weapons in this culture,” when Blacks put those tools down, the Rev. Jackson said, the right wing picked them up.
“Ignorance is our enemy,” Min. Farrakhan explained. And while White Supremacy has retained the upper hand, Blacks must work to “establish the value system of Christ and Muhammad and the prophets,” said the Muslim leader. The potential promise of Black unity, he said, amounts to “weapons of mass construction, weapons of mass deliverance.”
Posted by Szla on Nov 20, 2004 at 7:36 AM TO ALL YOU FARRAKHAN HATERS.......
The Harold Wallace Rosenthal Interview 1976
This booklet contains the text of a most revealing and shocking interview of a Jew by the name of Harold Rosenthal, which was conducted in 1976, by a concerned patriot, a Walter White, Jr.. Mr. Rosenthal, an influential Jew learned in the Jewish ways and involved in the workings of government in Washington, D.C., explained the Jewish involvement and cause of the major problems we face today.
In a highly confidential interview with a Jewish administrative assistant to one of this nation’s ranking senators, he said, “It is a marvel that the american people do not rise up and drive every JEW out of this country.” The Jew, Mr. Harold Wallace Rosenthal, made this statement after admitting Jewish dominance in all sighificant national programs. He said, “We Jews continue to be amazed with the ease by which Christian Americans have fallen into our hands. While the naive Americans wait for Khrushchev to bury them, we have taught them to submit to our every demand.” Asked how a nation could be captured without their knowing it, Mr. Rosenthal attributed this victory to absolute control of the media. He boasted of Jewish control of ALL NEWS. Any newspaper which refused to acquewsce to controlled news was brought to its knees by withdrawing advertising. Failing in this, the Jews stop the supply of news print and ink. “It’s a very simple matter,” he stated. Asked about men in high political office, Mr Rosenthal said that no one in the last three decades has achieved any political power without Jewish approval. “Americns have not had a presidential choice since 1932. Roosevelt was our man; every president since Roosevelt has been our man."In a discussion about George Wallace, Mr. Rosenthal smiled and suggested that we note where Wallace stands today.
When the U.S. foreign policy was mentioned, the bedroom confidence of the interview was all but set aside. With disdain and mockery he sneered at the American stupidity in failing to see through the entire scope of Kissenger’s foreign policy. “It is Zionist-Communist policy from beginning to end. Yet the citizens think this Jewish policy will benefit America.” He cited “detente” and Angola as examples of Jewish diplomacy. The credulous nature of Americans drew only contempt from him.
The interview continued on an almost omniscient plane. “We Jews have put issue upon issue to the American people. Then we promote both sides of the issue as confusion reigns. With their eye’s fixed on the issues, they fail to see who is behind every scene. We Jews toy with the American public as a cat toys with a mouse.”
As the conversation went on into the late hours, one could sense that perhaps America deserves the reign of terror being planned for her. The Jewish mind pits every ethnic group against the other. “The blood of the masses will flow as we wait for our day of world victory,” Mr. Rosenthal said coldly.......
http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/identity/rosenthal-1.html
Posted by kevin williams on Nov 20, 2004 at 1:24 PM It always amazes me how everyone outside of the African-American community feels the need to validate or invalidate our leaders. We like this negro “ Condie, Colin...” as long as he they perpetuate your selfish racist agenda. This condescending paternalistic attitude is proof of their contempt and lack of sincerity. Farrakhan and Jessie, although not perfect men have been there on the front lines for our people for decades. They have seen many token “Negros of the week” come and go. It is beautiful to see these strong black men come together, unified and unwavering. They are a true reflection of us
Posted by Tariq on Nov 21, 2004 at 5:26 AM Tariq, kindly back the fuck down. Why is pointing out the obvious deficiencies in these two clowns automatically make one “racist?”
You said,
“It is beautiful to see these strong black men come together, unified and unwavering. They are a true reflection of us”
That is sad. The same way Clinton was a cartoon, an utter hypocrisy and a joke, so is Jackson. This is a guy who, along with Farrakhan, virtually DEFINES racism! The fact that anyone would still call him “Reverend” is hilarious; what church does he preach at again? Does that church encourage philandering and hypocrisy?
And Farakhan… unbelievable.
Posted by g-love on Nov 22, 2004 at 8:16 AM g-love:
I stated in an earlier post that Jackson and Farakhan tend to emphasize the political neglect experienced by low income Blacks at the expense of addressing the political rape of working/entreprenurial class Blacks. I said that to say that the prevailing sentiment among many in this demographic is that Jackson and Farakhan have gone soft, that Black folks are ready to go beyond Jacksons’ intergrationism and Farakhans’ spiritualism. The rage, frustration and possible solutions expressed by bus drivers, letter carriers, school teachers, construction workers, small business people and other round the way people in private conversations regarding the political, economic and social injustices they endure everyday render Farakhan somewhat irrelevant and Jackson a part of the problem, especially after this charade of an election. If America had any idea of the level of contempt Black folks feel toward haters like you and your ignorant country you would openly and gladly embrace Jackson and Farakhan. Media plays them up to be “Black leaders” because by comparison with that majority of Blacks they pretend don’t even exist, Jackson and Farakhan’s positions really don’t threaten Americas’ status quo.
Posted by theloneous on Nov 22, 2004 at 9:43 AM Theloneous… whatever. You said the “level of contempt Black folks feel toward haters like” me? Are you SERIOUS?
Again - both transgressions by these tools have been well-documented over the years in many different sources. Sorry, if you can’t handle the truth, not my issue.
As for being “hated” by black folk, fine. I understand many have been mistreated, discriminated against, etc by white society. Far be it from me (or anyone else?) to offer sympathy and try to empathize and support people with their struggles for decent/equitable treatment.
But to suggest I’m a “hater” because I have no respect for these two grand-standing tools who offer little/no positive leadership? Gime a break!
Like I said, you want a REAL leader? A REAL leader rallys the troops and gets them to VOTE, because that is where the real power lies. I can’t help what this country’s forefathers did; hell, my family has been in this country for barely 100 years. All I can do is try to do what’s right and respect others.
But for that you say I’m a “hater.” Who’s the ignorant one now?
Posted by g-love on Nov 22, 2004 at 3:38 PM I have respect for both Rev. Jackson and Minister Farrakhan and I’ve taken the opportunity to listen to their radio conversation on the web.
I think it was a good discussion to hear and hopefully the start of honest discourse that should be held more often in the public.
Brumberger and g-love obviously have hate for both of these men and obvious contempt for the large segments of the Black community for having much respect for them. -It’s telling that they have not pointed out any portion of the radio show that they disagreed with. Apparently they have nothing contructive to offer.
On g-love’s point about “a real leader” getting people to vote because voting is then be-all end-all is rediculous. Many black people including me feel that voting for Elephants and Donkeys---Bush or Kerry was like picking between the lesser of two evils and I am tired of having to choose between satan and satan.
While I do see the utility in voting--particularly in local elections, operational unity (in economics and other arenas) is where real power lies not just voting for white folks who don’t give a damn, over and over again.
Posted by JB on Nov 23, 2004 at 8:38 AM g-love...whatever:
You are the ignorant one now and when you responded to my post. I say this primarily because you completely missed the point I tried to convey.
You say, “A REAL leader rallys the troops and gets them to VOTE, because that is where the real power lies.” I respectfully disagree, I’ve been asserting that Blacks can leverage power more effectively through economics than politics. The aspect of politics that hinders Black economic progress is the miserable return for our investment in federal, state and municipal government agencies, ie...taxes (income, sales, property, etc.), fees (all those charges on all your utility bills, city stickers, license plates, etc.) and Black taxes (higher insurance premiums, interest rates, ect.). The governmental services delivered in exchange for the disproportionately high percentage of our income that we pay in these various taxes is so imbalanced in favor of the governments that it can only be considered a rip off. The quality of life in Black communities is relatively less not because we are poor but because the money we send to DC, the state capitol and City Hall is not returned in equal measure but is instead used support American imperialism, corporate welfare and inept corrupt inefficient patronage laden bureaucraies. This imbalance is historical and is just as pronounced now, when Blacks are represented in almost every level of government through elections and appointments, as during the pre-Civil Rights era when we had very little representation at all. That’s why I submit; the political process is not working for the full benefit of Black Americans, especially in comparison with whites. I won’t go into detail on what I consider economic solutions to this dilemma except to say I don’t think it requires any media annointed “Black leaders” to achieve. Also, I don’t hold Jackson or Farakhan in less regard because they didn’t push tweedle dee over tweedle dum in the election but because they are not bringing any new ideas to the table, no new stategies or programs. But I’m not mad at them either, they’re getting up in age and both have had health and personal issues to deal. As far as their “transgresstions”, the only the I hold against Farakhan is that he stopped calling white people devils in public and Jackson let himself get cheated by the Democratic party. Also, since your family has been in this country for only a hundred years don’t be scared to listen and learn about your beloved America from people who’ve been here for over four hundred years.
Posted by theloneous on Nov 23, 2004 at 10:11 AM I DO get the Jewish World Wide Conspiracy newsletter. This month’s edition explained why there are no more smiley faces, pet rocks and schlitz beer. It also, predictably , denounded the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a forgery (Yawn) and urged, no demanded, an advertising boycott of the Detroit radio station that broadcast Father Coughlin, jeez you’d think they’d have already gotten around to that. L’chaim
Posted by clark Nitrate on Nov 23, 2004 at 3:51 PM Theloneous/JB… grow up. Really. If you think I am “the enemy,” or am contemptuous of black society simply because I have pointed out what losers Farrakhan and Jackson are, then again: YOU are ignorant!
How does someone make the quantam leap from “he doesn’t care for these two” to “he’s ignorant/racist/has contempt for blacks?” What - because I disagree with you?
Bunk.
Go ahead - follow these morons if you wish. But who’s the racist around here, Theloneous? You wrote:
“As far as their “transgresstions”, the only the I hold against Farakhan is that he stopped calling white people devils in public.”
Your tawdry, ignorant comments speak for themselves, and thanks - you provided some more proof of what a hypocrite and racist Farrakhan is.
So… does that make ME a “white devil” too? You folks really don’t get it, I ain’t the enemy. Really, I’m not.
JB, I couldn’t agree more with you on voting the lesser of two evils. Here in Illinois, where Kerry was a lock, I actually voted Libertarian simply so I didn’t have to make that awful choice. My vote was really to send a message that I’m fed up with the so-called two party system, which is really just two heads of the same evil coin.
But yeah… go on, make excuses. Whine about how political action won’t do anything. MLK would be proud of you both.
Duh. Economics AND political action are the keys here. Look at the recent elections… you think Dubya gives a flying fuck about “morals” or Christianity? NO. He cared about their votes, and used them just like any other special interest group.
Well, I for one believe that black Americans are the sleeping giant; potentially the biggest “special interest” group out there. Sure, use politics: boycott companies/products/services that you don’t support. Help build black-owned businesses by patronizing them.
But most of all VOTE. At the end of the day, it’s a huge mountain, but votes still do count regardless of the fluff about voting fraud. News flash: there’s always been voting fraud, likely always will be. Doesn’t make it right, but that’s just how it is.
But if enough folk can be galvanized, starting at the local level, you can start a landslide.
Posted by g-love on Nov 24, 2004 at 8:17 AM Bismillah.
Much love to Minister Fakarakhan always. Much love to the Reverend Jackson. And always love to Brother Salim who tells it like it is.
Posted by Ather Masood on Nov 24, 2004 at 8:23 AM Lived in Pakistan for 5 years, the only nation founded specifically as a homeland for Muslims. Read the Quran so as to understand the local culture better, y’all should read it for yourself. Despite the propaganda that it “can’t be perfectly translated”, it can still be understood very well in translation. LOVED BEST: 1) The Quranic rejection of any form of racism, and the open assertion that all people have equivalent value in the eyes of the Almighty, whether a president or a beggar. 2) The denial of any need for an intermediary between a human and her Creator, no need for clergy nor savior. 3) No idea of Original Sin, which is the most hateful doctrine in Christianity (and I say that as a lover of Jesus’ teachings). LIKED LEAST: 1) Knee-jerk acceptance of demands from “leadership” and uncritical support for violent and oppressive fatwas/judgements from mullahs (remember Salman Rushdie? Amina Lawal? The fact that they’re both still alive is remarkable, to say the least!). 2) A little more than half the human race gets second-class status; women, the majority that’s treated like a minority. Killing a woman over having been raped? What the fuck is that? 3) Myth over science, belief over knowledge, conformity over investigation. The entire Universe created in six days? Only as an allegory!
As for Farrakhan and Jackson, sorry, I’m allergic to political leaders who are also sectarian ministers. Don’t care the skin color, Falwell also gives me hives. Beware, God forbid any of them should gain electoral office. Rhetorical influence is quite enough, thanks. The history of religious leaders who get hold of real political power is too much filled with censorship, oppression, and innocent blood.
Posted by Kuya on Nov 24, 2004 at 7:52 PM Nicely done, Kuya!! I hope no one here thinks of you as a “devil” for daring to speak the truth and have an open mind.
Posted by g-love on Nov 25, 2004 at 12:27 PM Hellloooo… glove, you are the one that just doesn’t get it!
You may not like it but the fact of the matter is that as long as white folks like you blatantly disrespect black leaders who are held in very high esteem and respect by the majority of black people in this country, you will always be regarded as a white “devil” by them. That is real.
As far as Kuya expressing his phobia of “political leaders” associated with the black church or the black mosque.. tough cookies. That is the tradition of black struggle in America. If you need a refresher, please read a little more about black history or maybe wait until “black history month”.. you can start by looking at REVEREND Martin Luther King, MINISTER Malcolm X, REVEREND Jessie Jackson, MINISTER Louis Farrakhan. A great many of our activists were straight from the church or mosque.
One more think Kuya, regarding those “fatwas/judgments from mullahs”.. black christians and muslims here in America have shown themselves as examples to the world on how not to become so fanatical that our religion clouds our sanity.
Posted by JB on Nov 25, 2004 at 3:11 PM More ignorant, hateful nonsense from JB. Again I say, “grow up.” Read some books or something. Sorry, I don’t fucking care WHAT color a person is, when they are hypocrites and criminals (like PR Jackson) and a blatant racist (Farrakhan) I call it like it is.
I can’t help it if there are those weak/stupid enough to “follow” these morons.
Thanks for the advice on “reading,” try it yourself, maybe you’ll learn something. As for the church stuff, I could care less where they come from. What does that have to do with the rotten words/deeds that PR and Farrakhan have perpetrated?
It is folks like yourself that help fan the flames of ignorance, racism and intolerance. Way to go, nicely done.
Posted by g-love on Nov 26, 2004 at 1:10 PM JB, here’s a grammar lesson for you: “Disrespect” is a noun, not a verb. Please ue it accordingly.
Posted by Ted on Nov 26, 2004 at 5:05 PM I’ll applaud the role of inspirer and (if worthy) moral example from a religious leader who wants to contribute to politics and social progress. But from an elected official I want a determination to protect the rights of minorities as a balance to majority rule. That includes religious minorities, at the level of the neighborhood and nationwide. I simply don’t think that a man who got his spurs in the role of religious leader, who then gets elected to office, will be able to resist the pressures to institutionalize his sect’s beliefs. It doesn’t matter to me if that sect is majority or minority. It doesn’t matter whether they’re pale or dark of skin, I don’t care which sect it is, I think their pastor/minister role will unduly shape their policy decisions. Those of us outside that local or national majority will be forced by law to comply with values we do not believe in, like now. By the way, non-racism, to me, is not giving a damn about complexion in evaluating a man. “The content of their character”, represented by their words and actions and the outcomes of their efforts, for me that’s the only criteria for evaluation. If I were to be seen as a “white devil” by anyone, in spite of my non-racist attitudes and actions, then I suggest I’ve been the victim of a racist overgeneralization. And my aversion to religion infiltrating and becoming enforceable by law is based on observable instances from history in their thousands, neither America nor any of its many communities have a claim to privileged status as being more enlightened in their behavior. If there’s a counter-example someone might cite, I’m interested to read.
Posted by Kuya on Nov 26, 2004 at 5:07 PM Now Teddy, don’t be too perturbed and distracted by my apparently misplaced nouns and verbs on this forum.. As it can happen when passions compel one’s fingers to travel more rapidly than what is usual (LOL). However Ted, in this case I was actually using the long form of the often used slang verb, “DIS” which is a derivative of the noun “disrespect”. ;-0
Back to Mr. glove. Your communication on this forum has been punctuated with profanity, rudeness and intolerance. If you desire any intelligent give and take dialogue from anyone on this forum, I suggest you clean up your act!
”These two ignorant, racist fuck-sticks are losers. BOTH of them.” ..Farrakhan? Are you fucking kidding me? This asswipe is as racist.. You want a “leader?” How about Bill Cosby
-->Posted by g-love on November 17, 2004 at 4:08 PM..by comparison, Bill Cosby looks like fucking MLK and Harriet Tubman..
-->Posted by g-love on November 18, 2004 at 10:14 AM“Tariq, kindly back the fuck down.”
-->Posted by g-love on November 22, 2004 at 9:16 AM“More ignorant, hateful nonsense from JB. ..Sorry, I don’t fucking care.. It is folks like yourself that help fan the flames of ignorance, racism and intolerance.”
-->Posted by g-love on November 26, 2004 at 2:10 PM
Posted by JB on Nov 26, 2004 at 7:38 PM Where’s the ignorance in ANY of what I posted, JB? Where’s the racism? Where’s the hatred?
Are you really that much more offended by a few “bad” words than those who are proponents of racism and hatred? If so, you really do have an issue!
By the way, I notice you really didn’t refute any of the statements I made. Which is fine - because you can’t.
Posted by g-love on Nov 27, 2004 at 12:57 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
register a new account »Posting Security
Also by Salim Muwakkil
Popular Discussions
- The 9/11 Faith Movement
Many Americans believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by the U.S. government
1972 posts since Jul 11 06 - What’s the 411 on 9/11?
891 posts since Dec 21 05 - Democrats: It’s the War
659 posts since Nov 1 05 - Was the Presidential Election Stolen?
462 posts since Jun 19 06 - A Fundamental History Lesson
The rise of National Socialism proved politics and religion don't mix
426 posts since Oct 10 05
© 2004 In These Times | Reprint Policy | Privacy Policy | Powered by Expression Engine | RSS Feeds
