An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27 but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in separate incidents in the city’s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering Chicago’s inner-city neighborhoods. In black communities across the United States, concerned people are gathering… return to article
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Reader Comments (8)Page 1 of 1 pagesComing from a white middle class suburban family, I know nothing about urban crime and what its cause may be. I do, however, know that the first and only time that I have received “corporal punishment” in the form of a spanking I felt scared and confused, certainly not guilty about my previous actions. In later situations where discipline was required, my mother explained to me what I had done, and why it was inappropriate. Once I understood the cause and effect relationship behind spanking and what it attempts to correct, the spanking itself became unimportant. Certainly not all children have the immediate ability to respect the normal rules of society at large, but punishment via corporal punishment only creates fear of the act committed, not understanding and guilt. If given the chance to come to their own decision, I think any normal person would make a basically good choice concerning what is right. The knowledge of potential guilt is a much better deterrent of wrongdoing than fear could ever hope to achieve.
Posted by Trivial on Sep 9, 2006 at 12:38 PM Physical punishments upon kids also tend to escalate in severity, if they are part of a parent’s ongoing repertoire of guidance techniques. As the child gets bigger, punishments that formerly got their attention can be more easily ignored, which puts the parent in the position of either cranking up the intensity of the blow or making no impression on the desensitized child. And if big people have the “right” to hit little people in the home, it shouldn’t be surprising if kids themselves take that dynamic with them to the schoolyard or to the streets where they live.
I would be curious to know statistics about youth arrests and other crime stats in the countries listed that have outlawed hitting kids. How have things changed, if at all, since the ban? Although, traditional cultural norms that permit hitting may differ among them, and so might other sociological influences (e.g. perceived economic mobility, ambient levels of alcohol abuse in the society, etc) that also feasibly impact criminal behavior and/or corporal punishment in a given society. It might be hard to pull apart those threads to isolate the effects of spanking alone.
I’ve worked with kids from a few east Asian cultures in which a child who brings home less than excellent school grades may well be slapped in the face and screamed at for having disgraced themselves and their families. I’ve had to deal with it dozens of times; in an incident 6 years ago, one girl of 15 was actually shaking and fighting off tears when she earned a B+ in my class, because she was afraid to go home. The practice of hitting definitely percolates downward into the way the kids deal with each other, older ones feeling free to slap or punch kids who are younger if gestures of submission are not offered. And the kids whose behavior is objectionable to some ethic of conformity (e.g. mode of dress, choice of friends) are even more likely to be hit. In one expat school I worked in, it was the #2 disciplinary issue, exceeded only by cheating on tests and exams.
The toughest aspect of this problem will be the perception that corporal punishment is part of “our culture”, i.e. part of the identity of the people being studied. I’ve certainly heard this sort of thing said all over Asia to justify mean or punitive behavior. I was definitely on the receiving end of that ethic as a kid myself, when the “spare the rod, spoil the child” idea was implemented by my parents; “biblical” upbringing, yes?. I don’t know how pervasive this idea is as part of broad AfAm cultural identity, however the author implies that it is at least problematic enough to fuel a taboo against talking about it openly.
Posted by Kuya on Sep 10, 2006 at 11:17 PM I, too, was going to be one of those parents who would never spank-- until my strong willed child was born. For acts of defiance and obstinance, he got a swat on the behind. Now that strong will is channeled into more creative outlets, instead of his energies being wasted on sassing his parents.
I do think there is a real difference between swatting for defiance and the unjust and unfair beatings you may be speaking of. But much of that stems from mothers raising kids w/out fathers and also having kids when the mother is a kid herself .
However, two black friends of mine (both single moms) have successfully used “the belt” (or shoe, or spoon...) to raise law-abiding sons, both now in college. What was different here than with the cases above? Could be a strong faith in God and dragging those boys to church every Sunday.
So maybe we’re missing some pieces here about corporal punishment. I don’t think you can say that just because two items mutually exist, that one is necessarily the cause of the other.
Posted by oleofritter on Sep 11, 2006 at 10:28 AM Salim Muwakkil
The African proverb that states “It takes a village to raise a child,” an idea gaining popularity as fast as the phrase family value. Yes, it does take a whole community to raise a child. Like most African children the whole community raised me, from my immediate family, to relatives, neighbors and every adult. Americans are being naive to believe that such an idea or practice could take place here. This society, like it or not, is different from most African societies or villages. Yes as a child my parents nurtured and raised me. They instilled in me certain values. Their teachings were reinforced by every adult around me. These adults had the right to discipline (spanking) when they caught me doing something wrong. Now, and especially in this culture, those adults are known or referred to as busy bodies.
Primarily is respect, absolute. Deviation resulted in immediate punishment. The punishment could be physical or verbal tongue lashing. Immediately after they doled out punishment, an adult would take the youth aside and providing counseling to that youth. This person would reinforce what behavior is acceptable. The adults serve as means of reinforcing tradition and values. We do not show respect merely by the way we addressed our elders also by our actions. I received many knocks, hard knocks, on the head whenever I failed to show proper respect to an elder. I remember one incident when I got a phone call from my uncle in Lagos.I immediately jumped up and was not only yes sir, no sir, but I was also bowing my head several times. At the end of the conversation my American friends were curious with whom I was speaking. I told them that the phone call was from my father. Your father, is he not dead? Yes, my father is dead, I explained. It was my uncle who was on the phone. It was going to take a long time to explain why I called my uncle my father. They were wanted to know why I jumped up, stood at attention, military like and was bowing like a mannequin on a string. I have to show respect I replied, but he could not see you one said. My reply was so what. The issue to me was not if my uncle could see me, to me it is and will always be the respect that I have for him.
One manifestation of respect is the attachment of proper titles to the names of adults whenever a youth is addressing any adult. It was Mr. or Mrs., or Uncle or Auntie. It was inconceivable then for youth to call adults by their first names. Somehow, many African American parents are not demanding that their children address their friends as Mr. or Mrs. In some families the titles such as uncles and Auntie are rarely used. We dared not call any adult by their first name. Now we allow our children to call our friends by their first names. There are consequences when we encourage or tolerate this sort of behavior. Respect fosters what I will call “terms of endearment”
I remember reading something said by a wise African American lady. She said that the reason why America is so messed up today is “that in the old days, Black woman raised white children and her own; disciplined both white and black. Now every one started to read a book written by a White man on how to raise children (Dr. Spock). Now all the kids, both Black and White are crazy”
We also read or hear about alienation of our youth, of grownups not reaching out to the youth, especially at the inception of a youth’s deviant behavior. Adults are accused of displaying an apathetic behavior and not getting involved in providing guidance to our youth. Could the alienation and apathetic behavior be a direct result of lack of respect for elders? How easy is it for anyone to approach another individual when there is no connection between two individuals? Respect leads to connection and interest and with no respect there can be no connection or need to get involved in someone’s affair. Again, no endearment.
Posted by yomi owoyemi on Sep 11, 2006 at 4:24 PM Salim Muwakkil
The African proverb that states It takes a village to raise a child, an idea gaining popularity as fast as the phrase family value. Yes, it does take a whole community to raise a child. Like most African children the whole community raised me, from my immediate family, to relatives, neighbors and every adult. Americans are being naive to believe that such an idea or practice could take place here. This society, like it or not, is different from most African societies or villages. Yes as a child my parents nurtured and raised me. They instilled in me certain values. Their teachings were reinforced by every adult around me. These adults had the right to discipline (spanking) when they caught me doing something wrong. Now, and especially in this culture, those adults are known or referred to as busy bodies.
Primarily is respect, absolute. Deviation resulted in immediate punishment. The punishment could be physical or verbal tongue lashing. Immediately after they doled out punishment, an adult would take the youth aside and providing counseling to that youth. This person would reinforce what behavior is acceptable. The adults serve as means of reinforcing tradition and values. We do not show respect merely by the way we addressed our elders also by our actions. I received many knocks, hard knocks, on the head whenever I failed to show proper respect to an elder. I remember one incident when I got a phone call from my uncle in Lagos.I immediately jumped up and was not only yes sir, no sir, but I was also bowing my head several times. At the end of the conversation my American friends were curious with whom I was speaking. I told them that the phone call was from my father. Your father, is he not dead? Yes, my father is dead, I explained. It was my uncle who was on the phone. It was going to take a long time to explain why I called my uncle my father. They were wanted to know why I jumped up, stood at attention, military like and was bowing like a mannequin on a string. I have to show respect I replied, but he could not see you one said. My reply was so what. The issue to me was not if my uncle could see me, to me it is and will always be the respect that I have for him.
One manifestation of respect is the attachment of proper titles to the names of adults whenever a youth is addressing any adult. It was Mr. or Mrs., or Uncle or Auntie. It was inconceivable then for youth to call adults by their first names. Somehow, many African American parents are not demanding that their children address their friends as Mr. or Mrs. In some families the titles such as uncles and Auntie are rarely used. We dared not call any adult by their first name. Now we allow our children to call our friends by their first names. There are consequences when we encourage or tolerate this sort of behavior. Respect fosters what I will call terms of endearment
I remember reading something said by a wise African American lady. She said that the reason why America is so messed up today is that in the old days, Black woman raised white children and her own; disciplined both white and black. Now every one started to read a book written by a White man on how to raise children (Dr. Spock). Now all the kids, both Black and White are crazy
We also read or hear about alienation of our youth, of grownups not reaching out to the youth, especially at the inception of a youth’s deviant behavior. Adults are accused of displaying an apathetic behavior and not getting involved in providing guidance to our youth. Could the alienation and apathetic behavior be a direct result of lack of respect for elders? How easy is it for anyone to approach another individual when there is no connection between two individuals? Respect leads to connection and interest and with no respect there can be no connection or need to get involved in someone’s affair. Again, no endearment.
Posted by yomi owoyemi on Sep 11, 2006 at 4:25 PM yomi owoyemi....My friend and may I call you my brother...those are the wisest words this Redhorse has ever read , on any of the posts concerning this web-site as a whole....very well done....
My experience as an afrikan born in amerika is that as afrikans from the diaspora , we are very much still suffering from the effects of the abuses suffered for so long in this nation...The duplicity of what that experience has meant to us as individuals and as a group..The fact that none of what this nation is to it’s citizenry and the world...could have been done without the hard...thankless labor that was done by our foremothers and forefathers......Legally not being able to share in the abundance..........
The denial syndrome that is manifested by the maliciousness of what amerika has always been to us.....We as a group of people need to reconnect with the values that were lost...and combine them with the technologies of today and tomorrow…
Black kids in this nation have always been the most marginalized segment of the population...to disipline without the underlining principles in place...can be just as harmful as ignoring the problem…
What is lacking, in a word is....balance...Amerika is a all or nothing culture...and the victims of that neglect are naturally the children....young people....One last observation....these kids are bored...very , very bored...Now it goes without saying , what happens when kids are bored...Community programs that are culturally relevant....modifications in the academic curriculum so that all are included...example...teach the real history of how this nation was founded..not the propagandized version....also make math and science...culturally relevant , so that more young people will not be alienated by the subject matter...and last but most important...parenting....teach parenting skills at the high school level...make sure young folks understand the responsiblities & techniques used in successful parenting...get that wise afrikan amerikan lady to teach the course....What is that other old afrikan proverb...No bad students...only bad teachers…
It’s amazing what young people see and remember...nobody is perfect...but when we as adults act badly...kids see this...and not having the maturity...make thinks bigger....The adult must explain their mistake to the child...so that the youth understand...and have proper perspective.....and patience…
Posted by Redhorse on Sep 12, 2006 at 7:30 PM I enjoyed this article. The list of anti-spank nations brought tears to my eyes.
I do not like the author’s last line though. It muddies the argument to equate the interpersonal with the international.
Posted by barkless1 on Dec 21, 2006 at 2:51 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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