Come on Cosby, Stop Hatin’

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• Reader Comments (12)

  Page 1 of 1 pages

  Yeah this article nails it. The problem is not with blacks as individuals, but rather the systematic discrimination against all non-whites in the US. Having babies out of wedlock, dropping out of school, doing drugs, etc are not really bad, it is merely the white racism that continues to hold the black man down. Cosby is just an Uncle Tom who made it big and refuses to see that personal responsibility has nothing to do with how a black mans life turns out, since the white racists will hold him down anyway, most likely due to “bigger penis” envy. The only solution is reparations for all blacks, which should amount to at least $1 Million per black household, plus another Million for the black men who deserted the households above (again due to the white racist society in which we live).  Plus all blacks should be released from prison, since we know the only reason they are there is the white justice system is so very racist. Sure they may have shot their estranged wives or robbed a liquor store, but it was the white man that made these things happen, due to institutional racism. Really, when you think about it, the black man is completely helpless under our white dominated society, which will not offer him any breaks at all.

  I think we can all agree that the US is the worst of all nations and the African nations are the best. If not for the interference of the white man in Africa, it would be even more of a paradise than it is now.

  Salim, thanks for setting things straight, once again! It is always very amusing and enlightening to read your stuff!

  Posted by wolf on Dec 13, 2007 at 10:17 AM

  Wolf’s sarcasm is exactly what the critics of Cosby’s and Williams’ advice seem to be willing to accept as a part of the community’s complexity and vital cultural expressions.

  Muwakkil charges, “For Cosby and others of his ilk—like Juan Williams of National Public Radio and the Fox News Channel (whose book, Enough: The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America—and What We Can Do About It)—these miscreants are the true enemies of the black community.”

  Hmmm, that seems a bit like a sweeping indictment.

  If there is any hate in their messages it is for the wasted lives of those waiting for a miracle. The big sports contract or being “discovered” as the next music star.

  “...an indictment of an entire class of people” ???  Well, yes, but only of those for whom the shoe fits.

  Cosby and Williams could leave out any reference to color and the advice would serve us all very well.

  Posted by whattheheck on Dec 13, 2007 at 10:52 AM

  “Rap is a scapegoat not just for generational reasons, but also because it is a class-bound, cultural product of America’s most criminalized and marginalized population: urban black youth. The genre has a ghettocentric vibe that tends to discomfort many middle-class blacks.”

  Perhaps because they’re so often expected to identify not only with those who have been unfairly criminalized and marginalized, but also those who are truly criminal and marginal, based on loose similarity of racial features.

  “Many of those demonstrating against Jackson are jobless former inmates who argue that the civil rights leadership does little to ameliorate their plight.”

  What could he do about their plight? Jackson doesn’t always impress me, but how can he be held responsible for things he has no ability to affect, e.g. their own decisive behaviors?

  Those inmates who were incarcerated justly, I mean. Those who were railroaded, not them. But the real crooks? What can anyone do about them, but them?

  “These ex-offenders consider themselves victims of the prison-industrial complex and are becoming increasingly aggressive in their attempts to be heard.”

  They are victims if they’ve been stereotyped as criminals without cause, charged on trumped-up bases, denied access to decent defense, convicted on crap evidence and/or hit with inordinate sentences that non-blacks would not suffer for similar convictions.

  They are not victims if they’ve been the victimizers, and if that’s why they went to prison.

  Perhaps the author has a point about the “class” element involved here, but insofar as the different responses of Mr. Muwakkil and Ms. Washington to Cosby’s efforts (which to me hardly seem driven by “hatin’"), maybe they owe as much to generational differences as anything else. I don’t know specifically how old either of the two writers is, but their photos suggest that she is a fair bit younger than he, and therefore the two may well have had very different experiences within the racial complexities based on a difference in age. Therefore they may see completely different perspectives on the “race problem”, implying different solutions.

  Either way, I agree with whattheheck’s closing line. Cosby’s push for acceptance of personal responsibility for one’s actions and deliberately choosing to work toward excellence instead of mediocrity (as well as criminality, if that shoe fits) is good advice for anyone, regardless of what they look like.

  The feet we stand on are our own two, whether we like it or not.

  (what the hell is “racial treason”?)

  Posted by Kuya on Dec 13, 2007 at 10:50 PM

  I think some of Cosby’s criticisms should be taken seriously. I do think the Juan Williams book is nonsense.

  Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 16, 2007 at 12:28 PM

  People like Wolf wear blinders when it comes to race. His sarcasm betrays an intellectual shallowness unfit for a serious publication such as In These Times. I would suggest that Wolf confine his racist views to that sanctuary of rightwing dead-enders called Fox News Nethwork. I’m sure he would fit in as Special Consultant on Bill O’Reilley’s or Sean Hannity shows.

  Many black folk who are stuck in low wage jobs with fewer and fewer choices. Yet for ten years Republicans refused to raise the minimum wage, while bending over backwards to give tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans. If Cosby wanted to be taken seriously, he could have campaigned for a hike in the minimum wage, supported living wage campaigns beings waged nationally, or joined the recent fight to expand SCHIP. He cares about kids doesn’t he?

  Cosby could have said something like this to members of congress: “You ended ‘welfare as we know it’ and required poor people to get jobs. You lectured them about the dignity of work and the importance of being role models to their children. Why then, are you frustrating their ability to earn a living? Salim is right to locate this debate in the context of class. How else does one explain Cosby’s unwillingness to take on Bush on SCHIP, or his eagerness to defend a rich white woman, Martha Stewart, who defrauded the stock market system by the thousands—a lot more than the petty theft he attacks young Blacks of committing. The reason he won’t is simple: class solidarity. He feels a sense of kinship with the Bushes and Stewarts. 

  The priorities of Republicans like Wolf do not include these desperate people. Apparently, “personal responsibility” is reserved only for the poor. When it comes to rich, privileged white people, there is a bottomless reservoir of excuses. How many of George Bush’s cronies have been fired to incompetence? On the other hand, listen to the rightwing make excuses for Scooter Libby, Rumsfeld, Rove, (Michael) Brown, Gonzalez and his Justice Dept. minions, CIA tapes being destroyed….., fill in the blanks. The exclusive focus on the behavior of poor Black prevents an overdue focus on people in charge of this economy whose policies have force the poor into desperation.

  Monomotapa
  Chicago

  Posted by monomotapa on Dec 16, 2007 at 9:37 PM

  monomotapa post is amusing, but full of silliness. To dismiss those who like Cosby (and myself) believe that we are not helpless, that we can affect our own lives in a positive way, is both sad and typical of the old left. The attempt at personal assassination is quite telling, oftentimes when one cannot defend ones own beliefs, they take another tack and attack the *person* who expresses beliefs that are unpleasant to themselves.

  There really can be little doubt that *many* of the poor - regardless of race - are poor due to poor life choices. The big ones are: having children out of marriage, dropping out of school and abuse of drugs. These life choices cause much of the poverty - again regardless of race - that afflict our country. The solution to poverty is not found in the politics of race, rather it will be found by addressing the causes, rather than the symptoms.

  Anyway, since i was amused by monomotapa, i thought i would attempt a dictionary of his lexicon, such as it is. . .  :)

  racial hate == thinking black people should accept responsibility for their lives

  (I wonder, is racial treason the same as racial hate, but when assigned to a black person?)

  intellectual shallowness == not agreeing with folks like monomotapa

  stupidity == assigning false political party membership/opinions to other posters here

  I would suggest that folks like monomotapa both develop a sense of humor and read a bit more widely.

  Posted by wolf on Dec 17, 2007 at 9:06 AM

  -- COSBY IS DISTRACTING US FROM THE REAL SOLUTION!!! --
  Institutions designed to preserve and maintain power and privilege for white people are the primary source of the black teen problems Cosby identifies.  Dismantling and restructuring these institutions to serve the interests of a diverse population is the solution.  Nothing short of that will ever result in any sustainable progress. 

  But wouldn’t we rather dabble in notions like the idea that cleaning up rap music and changing hip-hop attire would fix these deeply ingrained societal ills?  Why focus on the glaring need to redistribute power and resources in this society when it is easier to criticize the mothers of Black kids with names like Sheniqua for being too ignorant to “properly” name their children (as Cosby did in the NAACP speech that started his campaign to better our race)?

  Restructuring this society is a daunting and necessary task.  Time is short, and therefore we have no time to indulge distractions that do not move us closer to our goal.  Cosby’s ill-conceived solution is one such distraction.  As for Cosby, here is my opinion:

  1) BLACK TEENS & WHITE TEENS HAVE SIMILAR PROBLEMS
  Internalized racist oppression is what causes black folks to so readily agree with Cosby’s culturally-based criticisms.  Statistics prove that white teens have all of the same problems Cosby points to (they have uninvolved parents, they use drugs, they use alcohol, they use slang, and they buy 70% of all the rap music sold).

  2) SOCIETAL WILL, NOT COSBY’S PRESCRIPTION, CREATES SUCCESSFUL TEENS
  White kids succeed at higher rates NOT because they followed Cosby’s secrets for success - they succeed at higher rates because it is the will of the society for them to succeed.  Cosby fails to point out that the support systems which shepherd white kids through their troubled youths prevent many of them from suffering the same consequences that black kids suffer (statistics prove that the courts give white kids drug counseling instead of jail, statistics prove that the schools give white kids guidance counseling instead of expulsions, statistics prove that the entry-level job market is designed to better accommodate the needs of whites, etc.).  And imagine how disheartening it must be to be a black teen, seeing yourself and your friends subjected to this unequal treatment on a daily basis?  White people have set up these institutionally based support systems designed to maintain white power and privilege by giving their kids the breaks they need to ensure they will survive the pitfalls of youth.  When societal concerns arise, white folks hold these institutions accountable for the results these institutions had guaranteed to them. 

  3) COSBY IS WRONG BECAUSE HE NEVER IDENTIFIES THE TRUE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM AND HIS PRIORITIES ARE IN THE WRONG ORDER
  Cosby attempts to divert our attention away from the systemic cause of our illness and toward peripheral maladies where, even if these lesser problems were solved, the patient would still die.  No one argues that some of the behaviors of teenagers may need to be modified, but given the current situation in the Black community, Cosby’s answer in context is a completely wrong answer - he is telling us that we should wipe our nose, but he ignores our systemic pneumonia and if we follow his advice, this result could be fatal. 

  I repeat:
  Institutions designed to preserve and maintain power and privilege for white people are the primary source of the black teen problems Cosby identifies.  Dismantling and restructuring these institutions to serve the interests of a diverse population is the solution.  Nothing short of that will ever result in any sustainable progress.

  Posted by peace_out on Dec 17, 2007 at 12:29 PM

  So peace_out i assume that you are advocating that black people, especially teens, do not even play the game, since it is rigged? Or do you have concrete suggestions to help them do better in todays world?

  My suggestions are:

  1) Do not have children at a young age (before you have a job that can pay for children, at least)
  2) Do not have children until married
  3) Finish high school
  4) Avoid drug abuse

  All of the above can be done regardless of ones race. What are your suggestions? (Wait until society is “fair”, perhaps? Or far worse, have a “revolution” and burn cars, kill people etc?)

  Posted by wolf on Dec 17, 2007 at 2:29 PM

  Peace,

  I can agree with your point 1.) in part.

  All kids, regardless of race, are likely to have the problems you list if parents are uninvolved.

  Our past government programs gave the illusion of aid, but contributed to the disintegration of families and the ethical and responsibility standards which were dominant during the upward movement of our society as a whole.

  Over the past several decades the middle and lower classes have actually lost purchasing power even with more people per household working.  Male or female if you center your life on making money (whether out of need or greed) any children will not get the guidance when required. “Quality Time” cannot make up for being there at the necessary time.

  We have been in a class struggle without most of us even noticing. According to a U.S. Census Bureau report, Changes in Median Household Income: 1969 to 1996,
  this is the percentage of increase…

  • Married couple with children (including wives) + 5.4%
  • Married couple with children (excluding wives) + 2.5%

  • Male with children, no spouse +5.1%
  • Female with children, no spouse +12.8%

  • One-person household, male less than 65 years old +3.8%
  • One-person household, female less than 65 years old -5%

  • One-person household, male 65 years old or older -1.6%
  • One-person household, female less than 65 years old +5.8%

  These numbers are inflation adjusted do not regard race which would be worse for minorities. They also do not adjust for the big increases in taxes and Social Security deductions over the period. Nor for the increased number now providing their own health care.

  We are often told the stock market gains go to more than 50% of the citizens due to 401(k) plans, that the tech boom of the 1990s and increases in home values have benefited all, but the average, unsophisticated investor (401(k) participant) is just beginning to reach the level pre-2000 market collapse as his home value declines big time.

  Those responsible for the subprime scam — many of whom benefitted from it — are now getting government aid under the guise of helping the home-buyer. They should be prosecuted.

  We are still losing ground.  About time to get out the old Tennessee Ford hit record, 16 Tons — we are going deeper in debt— some by choice and all by choice of our government.

  Posted by whattheheck on Dec 19, 2007 at 8:04 AM

  Question to the believers of the theory that the system is setup to maintain and keep non whites out of the power structure.

  How does this apply to Jews, Chinese, and East Indians? They don’t seen to succum to the I am the victim who has not chance to succeed in this society because the system is stacked against me. What most they seem to do is apply the focus that Cosby is advocating, educating your childern , Family values, and taking advantage of what this society offers and not focusing on the negative.

  Posted by mamba on Dec 22, 2007 at 11:39 AM

  It seems to me to be totally rational to both:
  1) understand that the tragedy of urban America owes it’s nihilism and poverty to our country’s historic abuse of black humans (slavery, Jim Crow, latent institutional bias) and thus requires sweeping, multi-tiered action on all levels of our elected government(s) and by our cultural icons to remedy, and
  2) Hold parents responsible for the upbringing of their children. I fail to see a moral paradox in Cosby “calling out” the parents who let their children down in ways which now ache with cliche (teen pregnancy, absent/incarcerated fathers, cultivating values of violence and materialism, etc.). The only danger is in the abandonment of efforts to implement systemic change in exchange for a posture of finger-wagging at the baffled black underclass. But since real systemic change addressing our history of racism is pretty non-existent, I see no reason to refuse to call a bad parent a bad parent after all.
  But if frustration with that fact is grating your brain like part-skim mozzarella, check out circlesofinfluence.net and say something intelligent.

  Posted by circumference on Jan 14, 2008 at 7:40 PM

  “Their major targets are the rap videos that specialize in sexually objectified or “hootchified” images of black women. But the hip-hop attitude of “keeping it real” and reflecting the ethos of the street is the true focus of their ire.”

  While I agree with much of the rest of the article, I find this statement troubling.  Yes, there has been class conflict since the time of W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington. But I believe that the real target of these protesters’ “ire” is indeed the marginalization of a viewpoint that doesn’t objectify women on the cable network.  BET is a large media conglomeration that (too) often airs music videos that are gross.  And by gross, I mean “women-as-possesions/spoils of newfound wealth” gross. 

  Sexism in black community has been hard-fought by black peeple of different classes, so to somehow jump from this protest scene to the black version of white flight says one or both of the following:  1)author truly believes that somehow the degradation of women is somehow bound up in the attitude of “keeping it real.” 2) That only middle class blacks care about sexism.  I don’t want to believe that the author meant either of those things.

  Posted by mt00 on Jan 21, 2008 at 2:40 AM

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