In November, Kurt Vonnegut turned 80. He published his first novel, Player Piano, in 1952 at the age of 29. Since then he has written 13 others, including Slaughterhouse Five, which stands as one of the pre-eminent anti-war novels of the 20th century. As war against Iraq looms, I asked Vonnegut, a reader and supporter of this magazine, to weigh… return to article
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Reader Comments (948)Rock on, Kurt Vonnegut! Go not gentle, etc. We the people must withdraw support from all places that support The Assholes, the Great Parasites, the Scum that has risen to the top: Strike, boycott, obfuscate, refuse, withold information, taxes, cooperation. Send their fucking garbage mail back to them in their own self-paid envelopes-- let the assholes recycle it themselves… Agitate.
Posted by Bruce McNaughton on Jan 27, 2003 at 8:34 PM “Thank You” For the first time in my 72+ years I fear this government. It sure as hell isn’t mine nor the people of this country.
Yet, I see and hear people defending the deranged ones in Washington.??? Just a sculptor who Questions!
Posted by george de Merle on Jan 27, 2003 at 10:58 PM The webpage layout makes it difficult to read the article in its entirety as many of the words seem to be getting cropped (right margin).
Posted by SJ on Jan 28, 2003 at 1:06 AM Absolutely Marvelous!.....except that part about the ‘aka christians’. some of us walk the walk. LOVE this interview! Love this man! right on the mark.
Praise Yeshua the Messiah. Shalom.
Posted by gretchen har-vonKeller on Jan 28, 2003 at 12:16 PM Thank you Kurt Vonnegut for calling George Dubbya Bush exactly what he is; a “C student”. A “C student” that doesn’t give a crap about Humanity or the planet it happens to live on!
Apparently, the Bush Junta (aka Assholes) that pull his strings don’t give a crap either.
So, why isn’t the media (or the general electorate) picking up on the anti-war movement and the anti-Bush movement? B/c they don’t give a rats ass about anything but ratings and let’s face it… WAR sells baby! Especially to the sheep that would rather drive around in their gas-guzzling SUV’s and BMW’s than pay one iota of attention to what their “government” or their “president” are doing.
Sigh.
Keep on keeping on Mr. Vonnegut! Some of us are indeed listening and doing what we can to Fight The Power.
Posted by CLR on Jan 28, 2003 at 4:22 PM Great interview.....I laughed out loud.......
Posted by Dr. M. L. Simmons on Jan 28, 2003 at 5:01 PM Did anyone email this article to the C-Students or the PP’s .
Thanks Kurt Vonnegut!!!!!!
Posted by M. A. Hinton on Jan 28, 2003 at 5:45 PM “C” students from Yale is a reference to George W. Bush’s less than stellar academic record while he was a student there. An “A” usually corresponds to students who receive 90-100 on their tests and papers; a “B” is awarded to students who score between 80 and 89; a “C” is given to students with scores between 70 and 79.
Posted by Emily on Jan 28, 2003 at 6:18 PM Kurt Vonnegut, I’ve loved ya ever since I found you when I was fourteen years old (God Bless You Mr. Rosewater). Thank you—you’ve always spoken the truth.
Posted by JC Hoosier on Jan 28, 2003 at 6:25 PM Civil disobedience in the face of an impeding immoral and unjust W-ar will be the “line in the sand” to will be the ultimate patriot act.
Posted by ken on Jan 28, 2003 at 8:01 PM Wow, it would seem Mr. Vonnegut has taken to channeling me in his old age. Or maybe it’s just that great minds think alike.
Whatever the case, Vonnegut’s mind in motion inspires hope where there is no logical reason for it.
Posted by Shedona Chevalier on Jan 28, 2003 at 8:02 PM While Kurt may bemoan the futility of artistic protest of war, I have at least found that his many words of sane perspective on war help me to feel that I am not alone in my own similar perspective and that even a little bit of beauty is worth preserving. These realizations are at least helpful in reducing the likelyhood that I myself will commit crimes against humanity, which is a comfort to me, and should be to others who fathom the creative mind bent on destruction. Which reminds me to make up a new word that means “creative destruction” as it applies to the idiots who cleverly created various machines to destroy various articles leaving little or no salvageable material. At least the old castles turned nicely back into stone walls and houses and roads. What will the Iraqis turn uranium-contaminated twisted steel and concrete rubble into next year? Maybe when the “war” is “over” we can send millionaire “C” students over to Iraq to don radiation suits and play paintball amid the ruins of buildings that appeared to satellites to be weapons factories disguised as schools and hospitals. They can pay for the reconstruction of the country, renamed “I-Rock”, as a kind of “vultural tourists”. Bad-ass oilmen can fly mock sorties over glow-man’s-land, no night vision goggles necessary. Why bomb them once? When the place is leveled, what fun to give mega-contracts to buddies, let them half-rebuild it, and then do it again! If the Bushes themselves go over, we’ll call it “Geeko-tourism”. Well Kurt, as always, it’s treat to sit at your word feast. And the ensuing excrement hardly stinks.
Love,
Last of the Literates
Posted by Jerome Millay on Jan 28, 2003 at 10:38 PM I’ve been a lifelong fan of Vonnegut
since I was 15 and read “Cat’s Cradle”
(and then everything else he’s written), but now I revere him as only of the only few Voices we have left in this mess called Modern Day America. Kudos, K.V., and thank you.
Posted by B. Schaefer on Jan 29, 2003 at 1:17 AM desparate- suffering extreme need or anxiety
inspire- to breathe into
We need artists just to keep us breathing under the weight of this madness. The satirists, especially, help us breathe by provoking the lungs to laugh. The Assholes have achieved such an advanced state of absurdity that it simultaneously begs and defies parody.
“They misunderestimated me.”
-GWBushIt’s like the sound of one hand clapping. It just blows the mind.
Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, for continuing to be a source of inspiration. I lost my father when I was 14yrs old and your work was a real life-line while growing up grieving. My parents raised me on your books and working class politics. My mother even brought you some of her homemade bread, years ago, at an independent bookstore that has since been run out of business by the big chains.
We’ve lost so much but, we still have power in our creativity and in the soles of our feet. See y’all at the palace wall.
In Struggle and Awe,
Nannette
Posted by Nannette Hiller on Jan 29, 2003 at 4:05 AM Proof positive
You can fool some of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but Kurt Vonnegut *none* of the time!!Now, we have to get more people to listen to him.
Roci
Posted by Roci on Jan 29, 2003 at 4:31 AM The scary part is that the C’s were gifts because the Profs. weren’t allowed to flunk him.
Posted by Amanda Sharpe on Jan 29, 2003 at 7:59 AM K.V. The Bill Mauldin of print journalists. Bill did it in pen and ink with Willy and Joe. K.V. with “Slaughter House 5”
Posted by Jerry Brooks on Jan 29, 2003 at 8:25 AM Kurt Vonnegut is a national treasure! Thanks for this wonderful commentary, it gives many of us courage to move forward and stand up for our beliefs in a world that wants to make us feel unpatriotic.
Thank you Mr. Vonnegut, you are my hero.
Posted by Liz Schulte on Jan 29, 2003 at 8:45 AM “Laughing out loud”, at Mr .Vonnegut"s interview may be OK, - as long as the tears are running down the laugh lines.
Posted by Ruth I Gove on Jan 29, 2003 at 9:02 AM you just can’t say it any better ! My question is, how long can I keep the sad truth from my kids that the earth is a goner, assholes are in charge, and that the only responsible existential thing to do is to make your own life have meaning - hopefully by being kind and helping others ??? I find it horrifying that by being honest with them I could be charged with psychological child abuse....
Posted by miriam lerner on Jan 29, 2003 at 9:15 AM This article was sent to me by my
27 year old pacifist som who has always considered K V to be a mensch. The line about not asking to be born has been his mantra to me. Now that his hero has said it, I must indure it more intensely. Liked the interview very much.
Posted by Mary Walb on Jan 29, 2003 at 9:25 AM This article was sent to me by my
27 year old pacifist som who has always considered K V to be a mensch. The line about not asking to be born has been his mantra to me. Now that his hero has said it, I must indure it more intensely. Liked the interview very much.
Posted by Mary Walb on Jan 29, 2003 at 9:25 AM Funny,
I googled “ignoramuses” and I was sent over to this site… now i know why.
Posted by Justin on Jan 29, 2003 at 10:56 AM Vonnegut is one of a very few who speaks very clearly on the issues of the day. His integrity and caring deeply for the U.S. shines through. As he says TV, news especially, is an opiate for this awful bunch of PPs as they do their destructive things. Worse than this may well be the weakness of the voices in academia. As a whole they seem to care less for the consequences of the Iraqi invasion. Is precedence of no concern or value to us? The U.S. more than any nation benefits from a lawful multilateral world. That is, its people as a whole benefit but may not the PPs. And that may be the problem. Or, that is likely what they think. Just ignore the general population and conservation, etc.
Thanks for offering us this piece.
Posted by Leonard L. Gambrell on Jan 29, 2003 at 11:08 AM The comments on this article were as inspiring as the interview itself. Just to know that there are people out there watching, and willing to go to the line--or the palace wall, or the protest, or the homeless shelter--to seek justice is hopeful.
It seems to me that the political divisions that we have grown accustomed to are no longer descriptive nor accurate (i.e. Bush is NOT a conservative, nor are the Democrats in any way “left.") More accurate would be: there are those who wish to preserve, and those who wish to destroy; those who see beauty, and those who see only “use.”Of note is the fact that Japan is missing plutonium (enough to make 25 nuclear weapons) and that 9 Russian nuclear scientists have been missing for several years.
Keep the faith.
Posted by Lisa Fox on Jan 29, 2003 at 12:06 PM Kurt Vonnegut at 80 is still the most amazing man on the planet. I have always loved him and appreciate his incredible ability to sum things up like no one else can!
Posted by LINDA POTTER on Jan 29, 2003 at 12:14 PM nice interview, joel. kurt v is a great guy. and these lunatics in power are true madmen....no nukes...harveyw
Posted by harvey wasserman on Jan 29, 2003 at 12:23 PM “God” bless you, Mr. Vonnegut. I only wish that the assholes in the mainstream media knew who you are and had the balls to run an interfview with you in their populist, government-felating publications.
Thank you for being a true patriot and a true American.
And a true artist!
Posted by Todd VanSteenhuyse on Jan 29, 2003 at 12:23 PM Wonderful wisdom! Mr. Vonnegut does not suffer from Alzeimer’s! Think Reagen, Heston, and so on.
Posted by Larry White on Jan 29, 2003 at 12:58 PM A “C” Student is good ole’ George W. He only had a C average at Yale, and he seems to be proud of it. In fact, in a speech to a school, he proclaimed “And to the ‘C’ students, I say that you, too, can be President of the United States!” Apparently, mediocre intelligence is enough to become the most powerful person in the world. :P
Posted by Max B on Jan 29, 2003 at 1:24 PM Love the interview, but given Mr. V’s last remark and the text of “Breakfast of Champions” the title should be “Kurt Vonnegut vs. the *” I have many times in corporate meetings written the name of some self-important speaker followed by * or even ***** - thanks to Mr. Vonnegut.
Posted by Kathy Schultz on Jan 29, 2003 at 1:39 PM I wonder if our ‘C-Student’ President ‘earned’ his ‘C’ the same way he ‘earned’ his entrance to Yale.
Posted by Bette on Jan 29, 2003 at 1:51 PM So glad to know that KV is still alive and kicking...and thankyou! Ear candy...confection...the quotes are worth more than any Rov-ing soundbite.
Posted by Dix on Jan 29, 2003 at 1:57 PM Right on the mark, Kurt! Especially after “W’s” State of the Nation address last night, the Pres is so off the mark with what is really happening in our country today! It really is scary how many people have been snowed by the current administrations’ policies.
Posted by ElvisTie on Jan 29, 2003 at 2:06 PM A “C” student is somebody who gets a degree but not an education.
Posted by dave on Jan 29, 2003 at 2:35 PM Kurt rocks my world. He is smart and humble and he takes our pathetic-ness and makes it just bearable enough to laugh, and while we are smiling it is safe to hope - and that is where the power is, hope gives us the courage to be better people.
Posted by Lisa Kretz on Jan 29, 2003 at 2:58 PM Funny, I googled ‘jerkwad’ and I got a picture of GeeDubya and the strange message ‘Justin from Nowhere.’ What the..?
Posted by Bruce McNaughton on Jan 29, 2003 at 3:07 PM Great article...our country has gone mad and we will have live or die with the consequences...I feel such despair at at all the lies...we should be talking about blowback...all we accuse Saddam of, the USis guilty of in spades.
Posted by michele Reynolds on Jan 29, 2003 at 3:17 PM Thank you, Mr. V.; my faith in humanity is at least partially restored by your eloquence and incisive observations.
My niece e-mailed me a bumper sticker she saw on I-95 this morning: Spay and Neuter Your Republicans. I agree. No one in the current administration should be allowed to reproduce, for fear our nation will be truly doomed.
Keep writing - there are plenty of us still reading.
Posted by Melinda Dickinson on Jan 29, 2003 at 3:32 PM The saddest part is that most of the kids in my high school are for the war in Iraq because they feel that “nuking them” will make things better. Sometimes, I just want to cry.
Posted by Andrew Ryder on Jan 29, 2003 at 3:34 PM Bravo, Bravo!
This is SO great! Thank God ‘we’ aren’t alone.
C Students From Yale...I love that, I just LOVE that!
Thank you for such a good laugh!
Posted by Barb on Jan 29, 2003 at 3:42 PM I remember when this century started being full of hope and optimism for what lay ahead. I simply can not believe what the world has come to in such a short span of time. It was obvious that with Jr. in power things would go wrong, but… this wrong? Really. Please, get up, stand up, fight this madness in any way you can. Anything and everything will make a difference.
Posted by A.H. on Jan 29, 2003 at 4:02 PM Just a really brilliant interview for those interested in EXPLETIVES and anarchy.
Posted by cd on Jan 29, 2003 at 4:18 PM Good interview, but I must disagree with Mr. Vonnegut on one thing he said; that the protests of Vietnam did not matter. Those protests ended that war, and at least have kept future US wars from tolerating too many US body bags.
Posted by Guy Hallman on Jan 29, 2003 at 4:20 PM God Bless you, Mr. Vonnegut. Many people—nearly everyone I know right now, actually—are in state of low level panic and despair as they see their beloved nation and freedoms disappear before their eyes, stolen by a gang of ignorant, arrogant cowboys who find it a simple thing to murder.
It is nice to know we are not alone, and that there may be hope yet.
Thank you.
Posted by Samuel Wells on Jan 29, 2003 at 5:16 PM I love the idea of sending them back their garbage mail. But why stop there? Let’s send them our real garbage!
Posted by CK on Jan 29, 2003 at 5:18 PM It’s nice to read the truth. I feel like he is an old teacher describing a class where there has been a mutiny by the jocks.
Posted by O. A. on Jan 29, 2003 at 5:21 PM Now I recall why I love and respect Kurt Vonnegut. The world of letters needs more moral, gutsy folks like KV.
Posted by Donald Winters on Jan 29, 2003 at 6:04 PM I think Kurt V represents all that is great about American science fiction. He describes how we move forward technologically, yet still never spend enough time on understanding our inner selves, the only thing we don’t seem able to change. Perhaps thats why the cowboy needs a new indian to slaughter.
Posted by Meurig Rosser-Davies on Jan 29, 2003 at 6:48 PM It would have been funny were it not real. I would have laughed but I’m too busy crappin my pants. I’d have used the toilet but I lost my job, my home and my family to an economic stimulus package. Can I get a do-over vote? This time I will vote for the lesser of two evils and shun my conscience. Great article. Can a copy be sent to every American who voted for Georgie Jr.?
Posted by Ted Walker on Jan 29, 2003 at 7:08 PM Thank you so much Kurt Vonnegut for telling it like it is. President Bush I’m afraid, is headed toward becoming one of the most dangerous “PPs” this world will have to deal with.
Posted by Kevin Scanlan on Jan 29, 2003 at 7:46 PM Thank you Mr. Vonnegut for reminding us that we need to focus on humanity - which is not bound by geography, language or race as we have been taught throughout the ages. The differences are in our minds. We are the human race - all of us collectively - and we need to strive to live and love while letting others do likewise. No more weapons production. No more pollution. And no more war.
As the late great Bob Marley said:
“Until the philosophy, that holds one race superior, and another, inferior, is finally and permanently, discredited an abandonned, everywhere is war, I say war.”
Posted by VH on Jan 29, 2003 at 8:07 PM Mr. V: Thanks for not stuttering, as usual.
Everybody else: count your blessings, and GET BUSY. Just visulaize Bush as a giant sign written in letters of fire on the backside of the GOP that sez KICK ME and put on your steel toed boots. We haven’t had a chance like this in a very long time.
Posted by Charles Gittings on Jan 29, 2003 at 8:10 PM KV rocks! 80 and with a 20yr old daughter! Keep cranking them out, we need you in the gene pool!
Posted by Ben Flesh on Jan 29, 2003 at 8:40 PM Vonnegut is a fabulous writer but your magazine and his political views are complete SHIT!
Posted by david on Jan 29, 2003 at 8:40 PM Once again, Vonnegut reminds us of simple humanity and common decency. Those morals we did not recieve from our parents, we can recieve from his words, for he has yet again served to make an extended family of those who can recognize truth, yet still laugh.
Posted by rachel on Jan 29, 2003 at 8:54 PM “objectively, the pacifist is pro-Nazi”
george orwell--1941
Posted by jawbreaker on Jan 29, 2003 at 9:11 PM great article ,except for the comment about christians . as a christian i find it hard to convince my fellow believers that bush and the republicans are bad news when they see remarks like that . attacking them won’t convince them to change their vote .
Posted by james tanner on Jan 29, 2003 at 9:18 PM I sincerely hope the attitudes displayed in all of these responses are a reflection of the majority, or at least an active minority of people today. It’s people like KV that keep me from losing all hope even at my young age of 19. -See you in NYC, February 15!!!-
Posted by Pat Wilkins on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:26 AM Thanks Kurt! and thank you Joel! keep fighting the fight. It’s articles like these from magazines like yours that make me believe that thier is a little but of hope for humanity.
Posted by pete farrell on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:38 AM I love you, Kurt!
You are a good man with many fans.
But who gives a damn about good men? Look at the Yanks, they are now all behind this madman. Why?
Because good men will always lose, unless they have the big money behind them as damn George has.
As long as money is ruling this planet nothing will stop injustice.Cheers
Posted by Hubert Muhlbock on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:24 AM You want a religious perspective? Anti-christ.
Historical?
The new Nazis.
What happens when the option is either bad or worse, i.e. bin Laden or Bush?
Despair.
Somehow, though, incredibly I think there is a real hope for some decent aspect of humanity. The rest will simply have to be eliminated, and I would support anyone who would eliminate evil, whether that evil be Bush or bin Laden or whoever. I would rather be a pacifist, but with assholes like these, how can you be? People like these make me ashamed to be human.
Posted by Mike Miller on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:51 AM Excellent article. Only the old can get away with speaking the plain truth. I wish that weren’t true.
Posted by Mike on Jan 30, 2003 at 3:01 AM Once again, everything Vonnegut says is dead on. What can I or anyone else say? He’s already said it umpteen times.
Posted by Levi Ethan Cecil on Jan 30, 2003 at 3:51 AM Bravo, Kurt. Spoken like a man who knows war for what it is. We who believe the same must never waver, no matter what flagwaving bonehead is weaseled into office. Lets Eject Bush in 2004.
Posted by R. Brady on Jan 30, 2003 at 7:04 AM Anytime someone asks me, “If you could have dinner with anyone you have never met, who would it be?” My answer is always, “Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.”
“C Students from Yale” IS one of the most popular shows right now. Let’s hope the network execs get board with it and cancel it after four years.
Reading the words and ideas of Mr. Vonnegut reinforce in me what it is to be human. For that, I am eternally greatful.
Posted by Daniel Moore on Jan 30, 2003 at 7:45 AM Christians and PP’s are quickly blending into the same unholy, malevolent American Pie, characterized by stupidity, ignorance, fear, hatred, bigotry and general disregard and distaste for the elevation and evolution of humanity. PP’s propose and support fascism and christian’s welcome it. A marriage made in heaven for these C-students!
Posted by Brian Finigan on Jan 30, 2003 at 7:57 AM Only when profit is removed from war and those in office with the most to hide are removed from office will we have a chance to fix our world. The most frightening part is the recent allegations of child molesters holding high offices both past and present. These men would do anything to hide this fact.
Posted by scared on Jan 30, 2003 at 9:51 AM What an idiot. He is a socialist pig. Vonnegut is not a patriot but a rebel with a big mouth spewing scum for the people of the 60’s to hang onto. give me a break he must of been the C student he is talking about!
Posted by dave on Jan 30, 2003 at 10:34 AM The most dangerous person on earth - is the person in the mirror.
It’s as easy to point at Bush and blame him for the danger we face as it is to point at Saddam Hussien and say the same.
The person in the mirror can solve these problems by looking for someone to help instead of someone to blame.
Peace to all.
Posted by Steve Bareman on Jan 30, 2003 at 10:47 AM I believe it was said best down in D.C. two weeks ago: in the face of all this bullshit, WE WILL BE UNGOVERNABLE! And although Vonnegut makes it seem almost hopeless, take solace in the fact that evolution and history are on our side… that there’s always a dark age before a new renaissance. But since nothing is guaranteed, what are YOU going to do about insuring our future?
Posted by Paul on Jan 30, 2003 at 11:03 AM Dave from Indiana represents the small-minded, juvenile, bigoted and fascist thinking that is so apparent in our dumbed-down culture. WW2 was fought for nothing! Fascism is still here bigger and better than ever. Dave and his ilk are traitors to America - they and the simpletons they worship and adore are leading the country into dictatorship, genocide and fascism, destroying and spitting on the Constitution and the treasured American ideals and values that once made our country great. The country STINKS! Thanks, Dave!!
Posted by P. Barnes on Jan 30, 2003 at 11:07 AM ps:
1. Mesolithic Dark Age, 9500 B.C.E.
2. Kurgan Invasions, 4500 B.C.E.
3. Aegean Dark Age,1400-800 B.C.E.
4. European Dark Age, 476-800 C.E.
5. Contemporary Dark Age
from http://www.integralage.org/docs/WITChap1.html
Posted by Paul on Jan 30, 2003 at 11:10 AM This president sees himself as a savoir of America. His ego knows no limits. He has no sense of history or of anything resembling implications of actions. I think Nelson Mandela summed it up as did Mr. Vpnnegut… They say the same things with new insights.
Posted by Mary Transue on Jan 30, 2003 at 11:46 AM Here in the south we all know that Bush is a killing asshole, but to read Mr. Vonnegut saying so, and in his unique way, itĄs the best thing that I’d read in a long, long time. It’s the civlized face of America that we donĄt usually see.
I hope Mr. Vonnegut stays forever as young, clever and funny as in this interview. Hi Ho.
Posted by Gonzalo on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:03 PM God bless you, Mr. Vonnegut. *Audible groan from audience*
Kurt Vonnegut is, I think, if not the greatest novelist of the 20th century then right up there, and I’m always glad to hear his take on things. I hope he never dies.
Say, I’ve been meaning to write Vonnegut a letter for a while; does anyone know how I might do that?
Posted by Kyle on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:28 PM I have found that being a distant cynic is the laziest occupation one can have. The plight of any author or writer or artist or whatever is to relay some idea that he may consider truth to another audience. No one would read his shit if no one cared. We are not as disconnected as we would like to be. Later.
-pba
Posted by Parth Amin on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:34 PM Yo, dave from indiana! You still livin in your mom’s garage back there? Thought so. Do you even know what socialism is? It’s about the working people owning the means of producing what we need to live, and not having to earn the right to live by selling our labor to the clique that owns everything. It’s about the profit motive being secondary to the interests of the people. It’s about citizen control of business and trade in the public interest. But I suppose your indoctrination as a ‘capitalist’ makes you ‘just know’ that having the richest five-percent of the population own eighty-some percent of the world’s resources is, like, a really good thing, just because, huh? Think hard, dinkwad.
Posted by Bruce on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:41 PM It will sound like self promotion, but if you agreed with Mr. Vonnegut’s remark that he feels as though our country had been invaded by “Martains or body snatchers”, you may enjoy a song I’ve released which proposes exactly that idea.
It’s called “Go In Peace”, and it’s available to be downloaded from my Steam Powered Studio site, www.somewhereoutwest.com
Interesting coincidence, I think, but then, Kurt has a thing for coincidences, right?
Posted by Jeff on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:46 PM Look at you candy asses!!!!!
Try some facts dfor a change:
Posted by Laughing at the Marxists on Jan 30, 2003 at 12:48 PM It’s very easy to feel helpless when so much power is kept in the upper structure of or economic social base, and so many of us reside below that stratus. I have always believed that Scientists and Artists were two of the most important groups in a society, and I would add teachers to both groups. One enriches the physical, and the other the spiritual foundations of their societies. To hear Mr. Vonnegut mention this in his quote about musicians makes me glad these points do not go unnoticed. I can deffinately thank Mr. Vonnegut for his ability to make a desperate cynic such as myself see the finer points in even the most dreaded of times through his simple, pointed and eloquent body of work. So often we see man’s continued refusal to look towards reason and instead choose to remain self-centered and ignorant. People simply do not see how things connect, how actions have grander consequences than just the immediate results. Again, this author has repeatedly conveyed this message through his medium, and his words are not knee-jerk, or thoughtless, or lacking in reason.
His comment on the Christians should not be confused with those who believe in the word of Christ. Those who follow structured, organized and dictated religions (aka Christians) are a vast different lot from those who choose to internalize the beliefs of a man who had a good thing to say. In that respect, he is right, christians do tend to muddy the concepts of right and wrong.
God bless you Mr. Vonnegut
Posted by Alvin Breaux on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:09 PM Look at you born agains trying to justify what he said.
Posted by Karl Grossman on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:15 PM At last a truth teller. If only there were more.
Posted by Barbara Shaffer on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:24 PM We who love him revel in the the vivid words addressed to the problem of this time, and there is only one, by the master. And he is a Humanist.
Posted by Harmon Chamberlin on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:45 PM KV’s view of christians is accurate - they are white supremacists. They monopolize the word ‘christian’ and reflect this filthy, man-made, heinous institution for what it is and always has been; spiritually dead, morally bankrupt, elitist and completely out-of-touch with the needs of society. It is archaic drivel that seeks only to control the minds, bodies and spirits of the people.
Posted by Brian Finigan on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:52 PM Isn’t it interesting how one little word can provoke a community? Simply throw in the word “Christian” and watch the offenses fly…
Shame on KV and all of you who use stereotypes that assault the non-guilty and misrepresent who and what they stand for.
For we in the United States all find ourselves the beneficiaries of those who were willing to fight for political and religious freedoms… I think the question for you is this, “When did you think that war ended?
Posted by Kevin on Jan 30, 2003 at 2:23 PM This amazing idea from the Boulder Mennonite Church: There is a grassroots campaign underway to protest war in Iraq in a simple, but potentially powerful way.
Place 1/2 cup uncooked rice in a small plastic bag (a snack-size bag or sandwich bag work fine). Squeeze out excess air and seal the bag. Wrap it in a piece of paper on which you have written, “If your enemies are hungry, feed them.” Romans 12:20. Please send this rice to the people of Iraq; do not attack them.”
Place the paper and bag of rice in an envelope (either a letter-sized or padded mailing envelope--both are the same cost to mail) and address them to:
President George Bush White House,
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20500Attach $1.06 in postage. (Three 37-cent stamps equal $1.11.)
Drop this in the mail. It is important to act NOW so that President Bush gets the letters ASAP, preferably before the “weeks not months” when Bush plans to nuke Iraq.
In order for this protest to be effective, there must be hundreds of thousands of such rice deliveries to the White House. We can do this if you each forward this message to your friends and family.
“In the mid-1950s, the pacifist Fellowship of Reconciliation, learning of famine in the Chinese mainland, launched a ‘Feed Thine Enemy’ campaign. Members and friends mailed thousands of little bags of rice to the White House with a tag quoting the Bible, “If thine enemy hunger, feed him.” As far as anyone knew for more than ten years, the campaign was an abject failure. The President did not acknowledge receipt of the bags publicly; certainly, no rice was ever sent to China.“What nonviolent activists only learned a decade later was that the campaign played a significant, perhaps even determining role in preventing nuclear war. Twice while the campaign was on, President Eisenhower met with the Joint Chiefs of Staff to consider U.S. options in the conflict with China over two islands, Quemoy and Matsu. The generals twice recommended the use of nuclear weapons. President Eisenhower each time turned to his aide and asked how many little bags of rice had come in. When
told they numbered in the tens of thousands, Eisenhower told the generals that as long as so many Americans were expressing active interest in having the U.S. feed the Chinese, he certainly wasn’t going to consider using nuclear weapons against them.”
Posted by richard henzel on Jan 30, 2003 at 2:38 PM I am glad at least to have lived in the same timeline as Mr. Vonnegut. His arrow always hits the mark. There is always hope as long as there are free thinkers such as he. Nam Myo Ho Renge Kyo; there will be world peace based on the dignity of the individual.
Posted by John Masterson on Jan 30, 2003 at 3:00 PM Greetings from DC.
My feet are still cold from the last few weeks of protests and I am glad to hear such a honored voice in the rising chorus of dissent for this self-serving escalation. I am writing to criticize the focus on the academic transcripts of the Bush Administration. C’Mon guys this is just another heirarchy and makes Bush’s critics sound like grade-snobs when they cite it as one of his flaws. Next you will be saying that only people with advanced degrees are smart or have the capacity for kindness. Jesus didn’t go to college and neither did the Buddha or Mohammed. Stay on message. Bush is not a bad leader because he did poorly in school. The point is that he is a fool and they come from every walk of life. What is dangerous is that he is in power and he brought a gang of dangerously stupid folks along with him. Let us hope that wisdom prevails and that all this is simply saber rattling to disarm Iraq so we can get on with the business of fixing the global econmy and maybe dismantling the dangerous guys who did hit us a year and a half ago.
Posted by Benjamin Rhys West on Jan 30, 2003 at 3:49 PM Thanks Kurt for keeping it real. You’re writing has been a positive influence on my life since studing Slaughterhouse Five at school aged fifteen. I guess I’ve benefited from other wise teachers along the way too. Along with a bit of life experience without which I might have had time to raise my levels above that of ‘C’ ;-)
Don’t despair there are many people who see things how they are, and they are starting to get pissed off (at last). You just don’t see it on the news.
Be nice to people, enjoy the fleeting moments of beauty and humour, do what is right. And give those around you a bit of a slap in case they’re not paying attention…
Assigning blame diverts energy that could be put towards working for the solution. Talking in stereotypes and labels doesn’t help either. Poor wee George just wants to feel loved.
Posted by Turnip on Jan 30, 2003 at 4:14 PM The Bush regime is a terrible burden the American people must bear for at least two more years. It’s nice to see KV keeping that wry sense of humor while bluntly stating his opinions. In many ways, I think that this same political awareness has been passed down to such contemporary writers such as Michael Moore, Jonathan Kozol, and Alex Kowlowitz. I’m not a very well read Vonnegut auithority, but I think his words, even at age 80, show that we aren’t the only ones scared of the events since 2000.
-James
PS Why do people who have differing opinions have to be so crude? Let’s hear the arguments from the other side other than OMG!!! KV SUXX!! And if you are really feeling bold, use your full name.
Posted by James Dziezynski on Jan 30, 2003 at 4:21 PM I love Kurt Vonnegutt. He gave me my religion--Bokononism. Now that a chimp has gotten control of Ice 9 may be about to destroy the human race, I can at least go out thankful that I got to be some of the mud that got to sit up and read Vonnegutt’s inspirational scriptures.
Posted by Brenda Majors on Jan 30, 2003 at 6:02 PM Kurt… You’re a star! Thanks for rocking the boat. And what do you all think of the whitehouse making it known today that, “Spys from Iraq” are putting on these protests against the war. I think it’s going to get wierd brothers and sisters!
Posted by Hans Fritz on Jan 30, 2003 at 6:02 PM It It is true, and, as usually by this author, witty and precise.
Posted by Anna Epelbaum on Jan 30, 2003 at 6:36 PM It is true, it is witty , it is precise, as is the other stuff of this writer.
Posted by Anna Epelbaum on Jan 30, 2003 at 6:38 PM I am a big Vonnegut fan, and after reading this interview I know why. He really can cut through the bullshit. I love the Martian bit. We would be better off with a Martian as president. The Bush regime is way too scarey.
Posted by kurt on Jan 30, 2003 at 6:42 PM War is a necessary evil to maintain peace. And that, unfortunately, is a fact. Again, unfortunately, there is always SOMEONE who wants to conquer the world ... to dominate ... to oppress. And as the world’s most powerful nation, is has fallen on USA to make sure that doesn’t happen. In the end, I have decided, that I would rather have a world of McDonalds and Starbucks, over a world of radical extremists bent on blowing themselves and my family up. Our way of life IS better than the lives of the oppressed people of Iraq. Imagine if Mr Vonnegut were a citizen of Iraq, and wrote the above article about Saddam and his government. That is my point. Criticise the USA all you want but it still IS the greatest nation in existence today. And the powerful US Military is what keeps you and me Americans.
Peace!
(Well after a little bit of liberating war)
Posted by David on Jan 30, 2003 at 7:11 PM This is just typical psychobabble of the left. The fact is the real danger in this country is if the ideas of the Vonngeut crowd become fashionable, they already are in the media and the academy, to more Americans. I fear the perlious path that America go down with a loss of national identity, religious association, and respect for the great men and isntitutions that have brought us thus far. We’d be no better then some of are pathetic “allies”.
N.B. Readers of In These Times your ideas are outdated and have failed America in the past. Its to bad there are so few sensible voices on the left. Those of us on the right would enjoy an reasonable debate.
Posted by Matt Sullivan on Jan 30, 2003 at 7:22 PM I think by “C students from Yale” Vonnegut is referring to those of the patrician class, like George W., who were able to get into Yale by virtue of a “legacy” (that is, alumnus father), but who were not smart and/or diligent enough to achieve respectable grades. There is a tradition of these dopes who get as grades what’s known as the “Gentleman’s C,” which means they don’t get F’s and therefore can’t get kicked out. A school like Yale doesn’t mind these guys because THEY DONATE HUGE SUMS OF MONEY TO THE SCHOOL.
Posted by Liz on Jan 30, 2003 at 7:30 PM A C student is a student who gets C-average grades - like George W. Bush did at Yale. Kurt Vonnegut is crazy smart, and he is not a C student in my book - and a lot of other more important people’s books, too.
Posted by Nobody Special on Jan 30, 2003 at 8:07 PM my first Kurt Von’ read and I’m going out for more. Where have you been all my life? LOL
Posted by siggy on Jan 30, 2003 at 8:41 PM It is comforting to know that Vonnegut is still here, still “on message” as they say in the media.
Bush is constantly ranting about evil. He is not unlike Bernard B. O’Hare from MOTHER NIGHT to whom Vonnegut, through Howard Campbell, says, “Where’s evil? It’s that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side.” The chapter in which this appears is called “St. George and the Dragon...”.
The major media seem to miss the main point about this war effort. It was a cynical political ploy, a PR effort prior to the mid-term elections designed to change the subject which had been the corporate malfeasance of Worldcom, Enron and others. A few perp walks, then it’s time to get back to fighting evil incarnate.
Again, thanks Mr. Vonnegut. You are an inspiration.
Posted by Bob on Jan 30, 2003 at 9:13 PM It’s interesting to read through the comments posted here and realize how consistently poor spelling is associated with right-wing political views. Coincidence? Nah.
Posted by Gregory Hoel on Jan 30, 2003 at 9:29 PM Respect for humanity means War is Insanity. Those that believe in war should be treated as insane.
Posted by Alvin Artim on Jan 30, 2003 at 9:30 PM Respect for humanity means war is insanity? Hmm. So in your mind war is NEVER an option? Hitler should have been allowed to take over all of Europe? The Japanese should have been allowed to take over the western United States? That is such and illogical argument it is frightening. Evil should be fought. Period. You can pass out flowers and give out hugs all you want, but in the end the Hitlers of the world spit in and laugh at your lack of strength. Evil flourishes when good people do nothing. Not understanding that is not only insanity but stupidity.
Posted by Nathan on Jan 30, 2003 at 9:43 PM ---- PPs (psychopathic personalities)are presentable, they know full well the suffering their actions may cause others, but they do not care. ------
Carl Sagan warned of destruction-bent PPs like Bush. “History is littered with men like this and we must guard the treasures of civilization against them.”
With our resources we should be leading the world in scientific discovery, technology, medicine and humanitarian exploits. And instead we are being led on a neanderthal quest into a second dark age by a nasty little man with the IQ of a learning disabled monkey. He has virtually banned stem cell research causing our most brilliant scientist to leave the country in order to continue his life-saving research (and I say to our scientists “go for it” and take others with you!), Bush alone of all the civilized nations’ leaders was conspiciously absent from the Earth Summit in Johannesburg and did not even pretend to consider signing the Kyoto accord, he has placed severe limits on internet access to scientific information, and will surely complete the destruction of the American judicial system before his term is over, as he continues to run roughshod over the constitutional rights of this country’s citizens.
I only wish there were literature today on a par with “God Bless You Mr Rosewater” that could reduce the present political climate to an oasis of humor and irony. But then my past escapes into the “Vonnegut alternate reality” occurred during a more hopeful time in American history.
Posted by Marci Sudlow on Jan 30, 2003 at 10:02 PM Kurt Vonnegut: What. A. Jerk.
And regarding someone’s comment about the fact that KV is 80 and he has a 20-year old daughter, and how that is so cool… Hmmm...I wonder - if, for example, an 80-year old “conservative” or otherwise non-liberal man had a 20-year old daughter, I’d wager most of the commenters here would decry it as “gross” or somehow disgusting.
Posted by David on Jan 30, 2003 at 10:51 PM Perhaps I am wrong to shut myself off from the news and the constant political issues plaguing our world. As a freshman in college, I find it something to be something that I couldn’t change if i tried, so why care about something that makes me want to cry? Kurt Vonnegut, I admire your strength in caring about something that we (the A students who know better than to be poli-sci majors) are unable to change.
Posted by Lydia on Jan 30, 2003 at 11:22 PM Why not give the soldiers who are going to fight this ridiculous thing shares in Exxon or Mobil as booty? How about an Iraqi slave or two, since we don’t seem to hear much about the actual people in the country anyway? This whole situation sort of begs a Tacitus.
Posted by Clint on Jan 30, 2003 at 11:43 PM Thank you, Joe- for you x-cellent interview. Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut- for your artistic and intellectual integrity. And thank you to everyone out there who sincerely gives a damn about the horrific mess that’s been made. You all give me hope and that’s something rather hard to come by these days, no?
Posted by L. Erinn Milliman on Jan 31, 2003 at 1:38 AM That was, by far, the most intelligent thing i have read on the internet is some time. Mr. Vonnegut, its good to see that you are still about, kicking and sharing with us your opinions. Kudos
Posted by Jasmine on Jan 31, 2003 at 1:39 AM Once again, Mr. Vonnegut speaks from the heart. Does anybody express himself quite so eloquently? I enjoy hearing his opinions, even if I don’t always agree.
Posted by John on Jan 31, 2003 at 3:38 AM Once again, Mr. Vonnegut speaks from the heart. Does anybody express himself quite so eloquently? I enjoy hearing his opinions, even if I don’t always agree.
Posted by John on Jan 31, 2003 at 3:39 AM Nathan from Earth: I believe you misunderstood. He said he fought in a “just” war for WWII; ‘respect for humanity means war is insanity’ is more likely to imply that deliberate wars that are not required are, well, insane. Put it this way; if UN inspectors found nuclear weapons, I would happily say that they should be sabotaged or whatnot to ensure that they cannot be used (hopefully without setting them off in place). However, in the absence of any credible threat.... To use your example, certainly Hitler and Nipponese imperialist expansion had to be stopped, but they were credible threats. Armies, air forces and navies were being created in plain sight, and war was obviously intended. Hitler talked of uniting the world; the Nipponese assumed they had the right to more power, and said so vocally; when was the last time you heard Saddam come out and say “I think I want to take over North America today”? When was the last time that he amassed an army capable of posing a serious threat? When was the last time that Saddam said “hey, I’ve got a big bomb, and they’ve got a bunch of big bombs - if I bomb them, maybe they won’t bomb me back”? When was the last time he was diagnosed as suicidal?
War with Iraq is like shooting someone who’s looking at you funny; it’s immoral and illegal, and even if they themselves have a gun, it doesn’t automatically imply the intent to use it on you.
In the USA, one of the most remarked upon rights is that to bear arms. Certainly, if the USA decides it must maintain some portion of it’s nuclear stockpile to defend itself, that fits with it’s individualistic policies. But then why should they stop other countries from having the capabilities to defend themselves? Under US ideals, your shifty-eyed neighbour has the same right to own a weapon as you, even if he looks suspicious. Why not follow those?
But then again, I approve of gun control and of disarmament. In all nuclear-capable countries.
Posted by Dan on Jan 31, 2003 at 3:45 AM the comment about “PPs” is spot on, these people, these “high flyers” have to be psychopaths to get where they are, ruining lives without a thought, all to keep their “budget” in line and to get ahead. We all end up in the same place, and that’s 6 feet deep.
Posted by adumb on Jan 31, 2003 at 4:54 AM Help me out of my apathy. I agree with 99% of the views expressed here, but what can we do? I have no experience with activism, but I’m fed up and want to act. I think I’ll send the rice to the white house.. that’s a start. If any of you have any other ideas, contact me.
By the way, I am an american living in Germany, believe me, the Germans are pissed!
Posted by John Loutzenhiser on Jan 31, 2003 at 6:54 AM Right on Kurt! The “C” student PP from Yale is certainly the most dangerous person on the planet. May he fall hard when he falls and be like Humpty Dumpty—All the PP’s on earth won’t be able to put him back together again.
Posted by metz castleberry on Jan 31, 2003 at 7:43 AM Hello American John L. from Germany… Write to your representative in the U.S.House and urge her/him to sponsor articles of impeachment against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield and Ashcroft. Their aggressive war against Afghanistan and the upcoming assault on Iraq are the same crimes against humanity that so many of the nazi war criminals were sentenced to die for at the Nurenburg Trials. The U.S. is signatory to the Nurenberg Charter, Judgement and Principles,and thus constitutionally bound to obey.
Tell your representative that international law professor Francis A. Boyle of the University of Illinois,Urbana-Champaign has offered to write the articles of impeachment at no cost to the congressional sponsor or to the republic.
A panel of 100 law professors has warned the war-mongers in the Bush government that they risk prosecution for war crimes if they proceed with their plan to invade Iraq for oil and global hegemony. Apparently they won’t listen.
Maybe the threat of impeachment will give them pause. Good luck, citizen.
Posted by Bruce on Jan 31, 2003 at 7:58 AM God, I love this man! Kurt, I have worshipped you since I could read.
My fondest wish is that Lennon could be proven right, and that “Power to the People” is an obtainable reality. But, as long as the C-student regime is in place, and the country is held in the grip of mediocrity and disillusionment, we will continue to see hard-working, intelligent people taking it in the rear, and the rich, white, “Christian” party boys will be will be doin’ the screwin’, a can of PBR in one hand, and a hearty “Yee-Haw” Slim-Pickens-ridin’-the-A-bomb-style while the planet chokes to death.
Posted by William Clark on Jan 31, 2003 at 8:46 AM 70 + years of drug abuse and he can still chew his tongue. Someone stick him in a nursing home already............ Uneducated government tit sucker.
Posted by Rick on Jan 31, 2003 at 9:29 AM The “uneducated government tit-sucker"(s) are in the white house bleeding the country dry. But this doesn’t seem to bother the psychos who support these PP’s. Ignorant and stupid are just excuses-these Bush supporters are actually psychotic.
Posted by Brian Finigan on Jan 31, 2003 at 9:41 AM Too true. More scary for the likes of us who are being dragged along with. If we’re going to fight wars against oppression, what about the Israelis? They have nukes and no weapons inspectors going round their facilities. Instead we’re going to bomb the cradle of civilisation. Makes sense.
Posted by Chris Collins on Jan 31, 2003 at 9:52 AM Kurt V’s language is both witty and scary. As always, he cuts through the crap and exposes the nastiness of our humanity. (What humanity?)
He and Michael Moore should do lecture tours together.
Posted by Jonathan on Jan 31, 2003 at 9:58 AM I’ve always been an avid fan of K V, yet there are some issue in this interview with which I simply disagree. Firstly, while most of you may be not be christian and/or accept any type of religon, the power of christianity should not be mocked. I know the system is flawed and people readily abuse it and manipulate it in attempts to excuse violent crimes against humanity, however some of us do “it” correctly. Whether you have accepted religon in your own life is between you and whomever, yet openly mocking the power of christianity seems irresponsible and unjustifiable. Secondly, it is blantanly obvious that President Bush hasn’t done everything in the correct manner. On the other hand, it is blantantly obvious that not one soul who has critized his policies and actions would have handled the country better in the grieving moments after 9-11. He was more than a leader in these moments he was friend to millions of americans here in the U.S. and worldwide. Whether you supported the war in Afghanistan or not, most can see that retaliation was unavoidable, if we want to start preventing repeated disasters. I am an American and as such I will support my President and my country as we handle the touchy situation of disarming Iraq. God Bless America, and God Bless George W. Bush.
Posted by Adam on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:05 AM Thank you, thank you, thank you. How about we get everybody that had their flag up last year, put them back up with a peace-sign flag underneath Old Glory ? Why don’t we get all the radio stations to start playing “War” (what is it good for?)ten times a day ?
Posted by David Reinhart on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:11 AM Ane Hanley- Good old Kurt. He doesn’t know it but we were both at the University of Chicago in the late 40’s, thinking all problems had been solved. That didn’t last long! He needs to speak louder to a bigger audience- his views reflect mine to a T.
Posted by Ane Hanley on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:12 AM The loud, obnoxious, in-your-face christians who support the murder of innocent Iraqis with pre-emptive war and a policy of blood for oil should be mocked, and mocked loudly. These are the only “christians’ who get any recognition and are supported by the mindless boobs, christian or not, who don’t have a clue about what is going on!
Posted by Brian Finigan on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:22 AM > pardon my ignorance,
> but what is a “C-student”?A student of mediocre achievement. (The U.S. student scores go from A-F).
Vonnegut’s point is that many U.S. business and govt leaders have attained their positions not through brilliance or merit, but through family wealth and/or connections.
Posted by --- on Jan 31, 2003 at 11:31 AM The name of the game in business is digging a canal for the flow of money. But money isn’t the real wealth in the world, power is. We (the masses) willingly hand our power over to institutions because they promise to manage it effectively. Laws and their enforcement, resources, all must be managed. That is power. Part of that power is redirected into maintaining the flow. Television and the controlled media help manage the flow of power.
We live in a system on a path that can’t be sustained. What form will our change take? Will it be catastrophic? Will it be intelligently managed? That is up to the people with power. Our power lies in our ability to think and make our own decisions. Greed does not think. We can. That is our hope.
P.S. To you people who criticize us who criticize the morons running this country, read Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. Even if only 1/4 of what they say is true, only a moron would keep arguing for the morons running this arrogant country. Think people, please think. Now is not the time for knee-jerk reactions.
Thank you Joel and Kurt.
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